A Year of Staying Work Ready

Austin Carr | @AmericasFavoriteLineman

Kevin Guillen | Wilderness Athlete

Stefan Underwood | Exos

Leigh Conducy | Missouri Valley JATC

Dr. John Medina | Brain Rules

Josh Nieves | Quanta Services

Dr. Wayne Chappelle | PsyOPTIMAL

Rob Jones | Echelon Front

Scott Politakis | The Polecast

Felipe Carrillo | WYE Delta

Mark Groves | Northwest Lineman College

Zach Spicer | Line Brother’s Keeper

Dr. Kevin Rindal | Vimocity

Welcome to a special episode of the WorkReady podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Kevin Rindal, and a year ago, we set out to build a tribute to America's workforce, a place where real-life stories meet cutting-edge ideas.

We've heard from safety leaders, scientists, coaches, and field veterans with decades on the tools, all telling us what it really takes to stay strong, sharp, and safe.

And again and again, we've returned to the three pillars that make someone truly work ready: physical readiness, mental readiness, and operational readiness.

So today, we're sharing some of our favorite moments from the past 52 episodes. It's how we thank the guests who made this show what it is, and how we salute the workforce itself. Line workers, operators, technicians, and trade people show up every day to keep the world moving. You are workforce athletes, and you deserve access to the best.

So with sincere gratitude for this past year, we look back on conversations with one goal: helping you take care of yourself, take care of your people, and stay work ready. Now, let's get into it.

What have you learned from a nutrition standpoint? And I know it's when you're working long shifts, you're working a storm, you put in long hours, you're remote, it can be difficult to find, um, good food. So how do you think about planning for nutrition and maybe what do you pack in your lunchbox, uh, to ensure that you always have the right type of fuel available?

I do my best to bring some protein for the morning so I'm not super hungry by the time lunch comes around. But I, like I said, I'm pretty bad about wanting to snack. When we're sitting in between jobs, I wanna eat something just because I'm bored. And so I try my best to bring as much protein as I can to keep me satiated, and fiber, whether that be like watermelon, any kind of fruits, anything like that, I do my best to bring at least that.

And then if I do snack on occasion, at least I've got some of the nutrients that I need to kinda keep my body going. It's, it's really tempting when you stop at a gas station, whether you're just getting fuel or somebody else is going in there for a roller dog, you're like, "I can have two or three roller dogs right now and I'd be pretty happy."

So it's just getting over that mindset of, "Okay, how am I gonna feel after that? What if we get a broke pole after this and the day is not easy anymore?" That's where my mind's kinda shifting to now. What's your go-to from a protein perspective, either in your lunchbox or if you're at a gas station and you're just looking for some quick fuel?

So for a gas station, I love beef jerky. I... And so I like the dry, hard, salty beef jerky. Everybody in my crew makes fun of me for it, but that's, that's the kind I like. For one, I think that the salt really helps replenish some of the minerals that I need, and I don't eat as much of it because I'm chewing on it so long, kind of tires my jaw out.

So it's not like the soft jerky where I'm just shoveling it down. You know, and a lot of times gas stations have eggs and simple foods like that where you can just go in there and grab something quick if you want a healthy option

So someone puts in a full shift, eats throughout the day, does everything that they think they're supposed to, and still hits a wall at hour eight. What's happening w- in the body when effort and fuel are not translating into sustained energy? A lot of times what's happening in your body when you're fatigued, you know, you're, you're struggling to feel like you're performing at the level you want, it st- it starts further back than just, just the food decisions, like just what you're putting in your mouth that day of work.

It... How did you sleep the night before? What did you eat for dinner the night before? What kind of conversations did you have with your family the night before? How much stress were you going to bed with? You know, what kind of mental space were you in the night before? What's the mental load on your body and toll on your body that you're, that you're carrying around all the time?

And a lot of the times that's, that's the, the thing that really drives your decision-making of what kind of food you're putting in your body, how much energy or intention you put behind how you're fueling yourself. What's happening in the body is, is generally a translation of the decisions you've made f- you know, going back to the night before.

It's gonna sound like that old just rubric curriculum stuff where it's like, yeah, sleep, drink water, you know, put good food in your body. But the reality is those core principles are just really fundamental and pillars in how you translate what goes in your body to usable, clean, productive energy throughout your day.

And really like that first, that first thing in the morning you do is so critical, especially when it comes to the way you feel all day long. That's kind of the thing that I prioritize the most and that I see making the biggest difference in people's, uh, work life and their health, just generally their health, is not getting on that, that insulin rollercoaster, that sugar rollercoaster first thing in the morning, because it's tough to get off of it once you're on it.

You know, once you're putting a lot of sugar into your system or those fast-absorbing carbs first thing in the morning, it's really, really tough to kind of rebalance and, and start regulating a lot of those levels, those, those blood sugar levels that are indicating or, or dictating a lot of your energy output, not just physically, but, but mentally as well.

The most underrated recovery habit I'm so boring. It's sleep. I mean, look, s- sleep. Sleep is the most underrated recovery habit. Give sleep just a quick moment here. I know this is rapid fire. I'll, I'll give you a short answer, but I'll try to be quick with this, but I feel like we need to talk about this.

Sleep and your circadian rhythm influence every single cell and system in your body. There's not a single thing you seek to do as a human that I can't tie back to how sleep helps it be better. I'm talking everything from body composition to mental clarity, to, uh, literally say anything you want, power, strength, speed, sex drive.

Like, literally take anything that is part of the human experience, sleep improves it. Uh, and yet, for whatever reason, in society, it's the first thing that we sacrifice when we get busy. So if you're looking for performance gains, protecting your sleep, most underrated recovery habit, and I know that's a really boring answer.

I wanna expand on that. So why do you think we give people a badge of honor for how little sleep they have, or we say stuff like, "I can sleep when I die"? Yeah, I, I think that, I think that that's changing, and maybe different cultures, different, uh, careers, maybe it's changing at different rates, but I do think that's changing.

I think we say that because it's what we heard from our parents' generation, perhaps before there was the degree of sleep research that there is now. Um, I can tell you working with Fortune 500 executives, uh, you back up 10, 15 years ago, there was still a lot of that, and now I find a lot of executives that are acting like pro athletes, and they wear Whoop bands, and they prioritize their sleep, um, because the research is undeniable.

Like, it's not, it's not one of those things that's, like, up for debate. I'm always like, "Yeah, there's, you know, this side and that side. It's up for debate," and this is one where it's like, that, it's not a debate you can win if you're trying to tell me that, you know, performance happens with short sleep. And what's, and what's even funnier is there's even research that shows the less sleep we get, the more confident we become in our decision-making, so you don't even...

It's, it's like the drunker you get, the less you realize how drunk you are. Um, it's like the less you sleep, the less you realize it. So what's funny is if I was debating a person who has short sleep, they would even be mega confident in their response to me that they can operate really well on short sleep, and it's like, yep, the research disproves that as well, but supports your confidence.

Lee, let's talk about some of the shifts that you're seeing in, in the industry. Uh, one of those being we're starting to view like linemen, construction workers as workforce athletes versus, you know, just a trade worker. I mean, what they do is athletic, and so they should be following athletic principles when it comes to taking care of that most important asset that you just talked about, their body.

Yeah, I really... You know, if I could go back to the beginning, I think that would probably be my biggest change is like learning how to eat right and learning how to ba- create work-life balance and like learning how to... And you do see it. You actually are seeing, I am seeing kids that are coming in that are like very physically fit, who you can tell they care about their fitness.

You can tell they watch, they're watching what they eat. They are, um, not going to the bars. They're going to the gym right when they get off work, even if it's a 10-hour day. Like they're putting in that time. So you do see like the magic behind, and you can see a better apprentice, a more physically fit apprentice.

You can see like, you can see the difference, clearly like a difference between like old guy, new guy maybe. You would see a younger kid, like he would stretch before he puts his hooks on. He would stretch before he gets in the bucket. He's actively doing them and, and nobody said-- You know what's funny is nobody really like, you know, they might give you a, you might hear a yoga joke here and there or whatever, you know, "Hey, look at mister, you know, stretchy flexy."

But honestly, you know, if, if he's physically fit, you don't see a lot of people are just like, "Man, you know, like you shouldn't do that." You know, they, they allow you. Y- nobody will really... They might throw a joke at you, but nobody hinders that. But you do see, um, uh, you do see that physical. We do so much physical work too, and there's so much to it.

And there's-- And we just haven't had, Kevin, I'll tell you, it's not, since the beginning of our trade, we haven't had, um, people that are willing to teach us that side of it or, or why it's important or like understand what, what the benefits are of it. It's kind of why I, I, I've embraced the Vimocity program so much because you have...

It's funny is, is like when I watch it, I see an old lineman. If I, if I'm, I'm an old lineman watching it going, "You know what? We teach our apprentices when they're in a bucket to, let's say, move up into the working position," and that makes complete sense. Then I can like l- overlay on top of that, like, hey, not only is it better positioning, but it's better ergonomics.

Longevity is important. People get that. I don't think you have to sell it, Kevin. Every lineman knows like, I only get one elbow or my shoulders, and you can't, you can't replace our parts very easily. If you don't have it, our economics are affected by that. Our families are affected by that. Almost all safety issues require a decision, whether it's to create the right, uh, environment, to make sure that all of the mechanics are working, or just to make sure you're not stupid on a job site.

You actually have to use your brain. So it all comes down to the brain. It's as simple as saying, "Well, cut off your head and see how much safety you can deal with for the rest of the, of the experience." The answer is, of course not. It all involves the brain, and so the brain, at the, uh, end of the day, is the ultimate safety organ.

Yeah, and how does the brain react under stress? There are several types of stress, and there are several types of reactions. Perhaps the overarching thing is to say it's not the presence of an aversive stimulus that usually hits the brain and, and hurts its ability to function. It's almost the-- It's almost always the inability to control the aversive stimulus that's coming at you, and control can be measured in two dimensions.

Number one, you can measure the severity of the stress coming at you, or number two, you can measure the frequency of the stress coming at you. Your ability to feel in control. If you feel in control of an aversive stimulus, you might not even report it as stressful, and neither might your physiology. But the more out of control you begin to feel, in a, say, in a white-collar office situation, it would be like you are judged about doing a particular project that you have to get done, but you're not given the financial resources necessary to do the project.

You're all of a sudden out of control, and that's what can give you stress because you may know that your job evaluation is gonna fully depend on your ability to execute, and if you don't have the money, you don't execute. Boom. It's now out of your control. There. That's the type of thing. That's the type of stress that can actually hurt brain function and in some cases even cause brain damage.

Well, in relating this back to the frontline workers, I mean, they may be working on power lines that are down and so, you know, it never happens in ideal condu- conditions. It's always, like, extreme weather. There's wind, there's rain. There's, you know, sometimes there's cold. But then you have the public barking at you 'cause, you know, they're wondering why, why are these lines down?

So how can things like deadlines and, you know, just the stress of people saying, "When is my power gonna get on?" Or getting, uh, you know, a job done and maybe you don't have all the equipment that you need in that scenario. How can that lead to, to stress that people don't even realize? Well, that's a feeling of being out of control.

If people are barking at you 'cause they want their power restored, and you have to execute a series of steps to get it done. You might even looking for where the line is down. There might be, uh, uh, mitigating circumstances that are totally beyond your control. You're liable to get really stressed. So one of the first things that you can say to a frontline worker after they have started, uh, uh, working with it, their sense of being, uh, of having an inner calm in the midst of stress is probably one of the single most important things they can do for their brain.

What can maybe a n- a newer worker or an apprentice do to gain that knowledge and glean that knowledge from, uh, the generation that is before them? I, I, I love it. So certainly it's asking questions. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got in my career was, "Josh, a closed mouth doesn't get fed." They don't know what you're struggling with unless you ask.

The hardest thing to do is to admit what you don't know, right? Uh, I think that that's true for a lot of people to say, "Hey, I have no clue. I don't know what to do. I've never seen this before," especially for younger people. There's a, there's a little bit of an ego there. There's a little bit of pride. We always say young people, they think they know everything, but that, that could be true for, you know, the, uh, older men and women as well, right?

I think that's kind of a universal truth. But, uh, so a, a big part of that for me was just putting it out there, right? Just kinda casting that line and see what would happen. When I started asking questions about the work that they were doing, immediately I got the buy-in. When I would do things that they didn't ask me to do, carry their tools to and from the work area...

I mean, it's a very humbling thing to do that, but I did it because that's what I was taught to do. My dad told me to do that. So I think all those little things that I did early on my time as an apprentice started, started to compound. If I couldn't get the coffee order right for 50 guys, how was I gonna order material as a foreman?

If I, if I didn't wanna sweep the shanty or clean the office, like, how was I gonna maintain a clean job site? It kinda ties back to, uh, like the Miyagi though, and, like, wax on, wax off. He's doing all these things, and he gets to a point where he feels like this is a complete waste of time. What does this have to do with, with karate?

What does this have to do with karate? And then Mr. Miyagi stops what he's doing, right? He tells him to drop everything, and then he starts throwing all these punches at him, and he's blocking everything, and all of a sudden this organic process happens to, to Daniel's son, right? Yeah. So all these little practices I did, showing up early every single day, coming in with a servant mindset, which eventually turned into servant leadership, admitting what I don't know, and just being humble, that ended up transcending into leadership roles.

And I think those things are absolutely needed if you're gonna work in any kind of leadership capacity. In every situation, it doesn't, again, matter if you're a professional athlete, a special operator or, you know, working in the trades, you're gonna encounter different circumstances that put stress on your entire system and are gonna challenge that.

So it could be you're working in 110 degrees and you're uncomfortable. It could be that you're coming off an 18-hour shift and you're a little bit sleep deprived. It could be, again, that it's a very stressful situation where you have something else going on at home. How do people recognize, uh, you know, those stresses, not let them become the focal point, and be able to navigate through those, uh, those challenges that are being placed on them, uh, mentally?

Yeah. So part of that is self-awareness, right? So when you, when you are aware of your stress level, you can determine is your stress level now so high that it's, that it's now degrading my mind and my body. Um, a good example would be if you're, you're driving down the road, you've been on the road for a long time, and you look over and you see the warning light from your engine come on saying, "Look, it's overheating."

Um, that level of self-awareness is consistent with the mind and the body. You have to be aware enough that as you're driving things, as you're driving yourself through these demanding situations, to get an idea in terms of where your stress level is. And to make it simple, let's just say that your stress gauge is on a scale of zero to 10, 10 being really high, zero meaning not at all.

Now, when your stress level is hitting an eight, nine, and ten, that's when we have concentration problems, that's when we have composure problems where our emotions are getting the best of this. This is where we have communication issues in which we might be really rough around the edges, drop a few F-bombs and a, a few, you know, w-words of profanity.

We're, we're not gonna necessarily socially and emotionally be our best, and in some cases, we might actually be a, a bit impulsive as our, as our stress levels get the best of us. So if you go to a typical psychologist, they'll tell you, "Oh gosh, you have high stress? Let's get rid of that stress. Let's take it down so that you have no stress because the n-the less stress you have, the better you are."

Here's again, I want you to take that thought, I want you to write it on a piece of paper, and I want you to torch it and burn it because that is absolutely not the case. See, if you have no stress, on a scale of zero to three, meaning very low, you're either gonna become too comfortable and too complacent.

If I looked at a special ops guy and we're about ready to jump into enemy territory and perform a mission, and he looks at me and says, "Yeah, Doc, I'm not stressed at all." I'm gonna be like, "Do you understand the realities of the situation that we're in? Do you realize everything that could go bad?" Now, I'm not saying this to make you overly stressed.

I'm saying this to get you stressed because it's-- When you have no stress, you're too comfortable, too complacent, and you're not gonna be concentrating on the things that you should be. So the optimal state of stress on that scale of zero to ten is between five and seven. Why? Because the brain, the speed and accuracy of information processing is at its highest.

See, it's not so high that you can't concentrate, and it's not so low that you're not complacent. It's right in the zone, and this is where you begin to process things that are most relevant. So if you wake up and you have no stress, the goal is to elevate it so that you're more vigilant, prepared, and aware.

If you have too much stress, the goal is to bring it down into that five to seven zone. See, we think of stress in terms of black and white. You either should have it or you shouldn't. Mm-mm. You wanna have the ult-optimal levels Someone listening to us who doesn't understand all the principles of, uh, extreme ownership, can you walk us through, uh, what those are?

Extreme ownership is the concept that every leader on the team is responsible for everything that affects the outcome of the team's mission. That means all the problems, finding the solutions to those problems, and taking the actions to make it happen. Now, at the same time, we believe that every single person on the team is a leader, which means every single person on that team needs to take extreme ownership of the outcome and the success of the mission.

That means they're not gonna make excuses when things go wrong or mistakes get made, and they're not gonna point the finger at anybody else. So let's say something happens on a job site. If everybody on that job site starts pointing the finger at everybody else about why the th- why something went wrong, then there's nobody working on the problem 'cause we're spending all our time and all our energy just blaming everybody else.

Nobody's gonna work on the problem, then we're gonna go to the next job site. What's gonna happen? Same exact thing. Maybe something even worse. But on the other hand, if we flip that on its head and something happens and everybody on that job site, everybody on that team is saying, "You know, how did I contribute to this happening, and what can I do to make...

to, to prevent it from happening in the future?" Now we're all working on something that we can do, and when every single person does what they can do to prevent that from happening in the future, everybody on the team is, is working on the problem, that problem's gonna get solved, and then we're not gonna have that problem anymore, and the team can get better.

The next job's gonna go better. The project's gonna be a greater success. So that's why it's vital that every single person on the team takes extreme ownership. And what they also need to take extreme ownership of is the fact that everybody on that team needs to lead not only themselves, but other people on the team.

Because every team is com- is comprised of human beings, and leadership is all about influencing other people to take action in some way. So what we need to do is we need to lead other people in such a way that it galvanizes them together to work to take extreme ownership and work towards a common mission that we all have.

And it's good to be strong, but you also want mobility. And so th- there's this balance between being able to move well and have range of motion, but then also have the muscular strength. And what I've always found is that, you know, sometimes if people are too muscle-bound and they lose their mobility and they're not balancing their ability to move well, then you start to put your body in a bad position 'cause you, you can't quite move the way that you need to, and then that puts more stress on the system.

So Scott, everything that you're saying is 100%, like, what we would do from an athletic standpoint, and I just wanted to, to add on to that 'cause I, I think you're, you're spot on with that. Yeah, so, uh, balance. Yeah. That is something... That is the first thing I teach them how to climb a pole. You have to balance on one leg to be able to climb.

You have to be able to shift all your weight to one side to get the other leg out of the pole to take the step, right? So we spend a whole day just learning how to balance from one foot to the other, and you would be amazed of people that cannot do that. You know what I mean? They just, uh, they fall over.

You know? They, they're not good at shifting their weight. You know, and I try to tell them it's just like walking a set of stairs. You have to pick that foot up to go to the step, right? So you're already shifting that weight, you just don't realize it. And now because you're on a pole, it's like you're a little nervous and you, you don't wanna lean that way and shift your weight 'cause you're afraid, "If I lean and miss, I'm gonna fall," right?

So yeah, balance is definitely something. And one of the other things you just said is, you know, I would... When you hurt yourself, right? I, I got, "This is hurting a little bit." Okay, that's when we're really bad to hurt something else, right? Because we're trying not to use this, and we're using more of this, and we're getting in a bad work position, right?

Absolutely. Now my back's hurting. Yeah. Right? Because I'm trying to compensate for this. So yeah, uh, being physical toned and exercising is what, is what keeps you going every day. It keeps you away from those injuries, you know? Yeah. Have you had any injuries over the course of your career? Sure. I've had a shoulder surgery.

Yeah. Uh, back infusions. Yeah. So yeah. Um, the shoulder was something from the early years, you know, and probably the back too. You know? Uh, people don't realize that when you're young, to me, uh, you can bounce back pretty quick, you know? Uh, I used to say all the time I had Thor skin, right? I could get a cut, and two days later I wouldn't even have a scar.

That baby'd be healed up, you know? And nowadays, when you're older, when you, you know, if you, if you cut your skin it takes quite a bit. It's four or five days before it heals, you know? Uh, and I got some nasty scars on me that , you know, from, from cutting myself and stuff. But it, uh... Um, over the course of time, I think by not taking care of myself early, I'm paying for it nowadays.

Sure. Uh, don't wait for something to happen. Uh, wear your proper PPE. I've seen it happen. Uh, we've seen stories of people, uh, wearing the proper PPE and people not wearing the proper PPE, whether it's our brand or someone else's, it is important. If you've been in the field for 20 years and you've never experienced an incident, don't get comfortable because it could be 20 years and one day when it, boom, all of a sudden it happens.

Um, I, for one, am guilty of wearing Oakley Holbrooks in the field until I saw someone get injured and get an impact to the face. That's when I said, "Okay, I gotta take my stuff serious." And along those lines, why do you think it's important that people in the trades see themselves as athletes and, and do the things that an athlete would do to take care of their mental, physical, uh, body so that they can have that career longevity?

Absolutely. So keep-- think about it, uh, your body is your money maker. If, if you get injured, if you break something, if a hand, if you cut yourself because you weren't wearing the proper PPE, for the rest of your life, you're gonna carry on and you're gonna have that guilt. You're gonna tell yourself and ask yourself, "Why didn't I do it?

I could've just been wearing my glasses. I could've just been wearing my hard hat, my gloves." Um, your... Without your body, you're not making money, and without making money, you're gonna struggle with bills, you're gonna struggle with sources of income. I recommend that you truly take care of yourself and, uh, your body is very important.

So, you know, nutrition, um, exercises, um, what, what your stretch is, and properly protecting yourself. Again, it doesn't have to be White Delta for you to w- be protected from your eyes. You can wear any other brand, just wear something safe.

We really started to look at, uh, if you're gonna invent things, um, you know, you look for an industry. Ideally, the easiest way is to look for an industry, an emerging industry, or something that hasn't changed in over 100 years. And I'm gonna say line work hasn't changed too much. I'm sure we have fiberglass now instead of wood hot sticks.

We have bucket trucks, hydraulics, battery presses. Some things have really evolved and done really good, um, because of, you know, Buckingham, Milwaukee, those, those companies. And so we looked at pole top rescue. It hasn't changed. Like, why do we take the only m- thing that could give us mechanical advantage, the hand line block, and throw it to the dirt?

First thing we do is throw it to the dirt, and then we take a rope and throw it up by the high voltage lines. So, you know, I really started to dive in and research how our mind works, you know, and what do we do in emergency situations. And started looking at the firefighters because it was a good parallel, was that you're in a team environment and now you have to rescue your own.

'Cause in line work, you're not gonna rescue... The firefighters aren't gonna come rescue you. It's gonna be a body recovery, unfortunately. So you're gonna rescue your own, and we're trained in that and certified in that every year. Um, so but what happens to your mind in a rescue scenario? Well, you and I, Kevin, we see an accident on the side of the road and I'm- I know you.

I'm sure you pulled over and assisted one of you- whenever you could. It's pretty easy 'cause you're unattached to that. But when you're attached to them, then your mind, um, can do different things, right? You can get higher stre- higher, uh, cortisol levels, higher adrenaline, and it can just overload your frontal cortex, which gives you the ability to reason, right?

And, and, and reason and think through this. And so we won't function correctly. So we wanna develop a tool. Essentially, I'm gonna get to it. Is something that you use every day, so you use muscle memory. So I interviewed a lot of linemen who had done rescues in the field, and they had memory gaps of what happened, right?

Logically, because these are the guys they worked with every day. Uh, so they don't remember specifically everything. They just really worked off of muscle memory. So again, that's where, okay, let's, let's build something that they could use every day in the trade. And so when it does come to rescue, it's innate, it's built in, it's muscle memory.

That was the whole idea, that you're not even gonna think about rescue. You already know how to get friction. You already know how to rig and, and, uh, and successfully complete the rescue. 'Cause no one's coming to save you, right? Like, it's, it's us. It's, it's you and me. If we're on the pole, it's you and me.

That's-- And my crew, right? That's, that's who's gonna save us that day. So that's where the Ox Block came out of, you know? And that was our first tool to test the industry. And I don't think a lot of folks understand that. If you get hurt, the majority of times, you're not gonna be dealing with your company.

Your company is gonna turn it over to an insurance company, which is workers' comp. And it's just like you driving drunk, getting in a wreck. Your insurance company gonna be like, "You did that. It, it ain't on us. You know the rules. You did it wrong." They can do the same thing to you on the workers' comp side, because if you knowingly break the rules They like to use willful, right?

They, they, you willfully break the rules, then the insurance company don't have to handle any of that. They can, they d- can deny your claim, and it can all fall back on you If you don't want to stay safe and do the right thing to go home every night like you want to in one piece and all that kind of stuff, uh, you might want to do it because unless you've got a million dollars in your back pocket, you might be SOL because then not only are you laying in a hospital, possibly missing limbs, maybe not return to that same job, all that combined with you owing a million dollars kind of thing.

Luckily, I had a good safety man that legitimately, legitimately put his job on the line and fought for me, and he actually appealed the workers' comp process, whole nine yards, got another investigation going, and all that ended up getting it overturned, and workers' comp picked it up for me. So luckily, my safety man, literally, he, you know, he's worth a million, million and a half to me, right?

But a good safety man should be that guy. He's not there as a cop to catch you doing something wrong 'cause you shouldn't be doing anything wrong, right? Know the rules, you should follow 'em. He should be like a coach, right? Like he should have your back. He should be there to make sure that, "Is there anything you need?

Can I get you this?" Right. You know, "Y'all, y'all are doing this. Y'all need, y'all need this equipment or that equipment. Like, what can I do to help you do your job safer?" And he's gonna have your back because if something ever does go on, he can go, "I know my guys. They were doing the right thing, and I'm gonna stand here with 'em."

But we got to do our part, right? Like you said, that personal accountability all the way down to that last level of defense, right, on that hierarchy of control. Last line of defense is that PPE. If you do nothing but wear your proper PPE the proper right way, I'm not saying an accident ain't gonna happen, but at least that's gonna put a layer of defense between you and what the outcome's gonna be.

It could be the difference between losing a hand or losing an arm, or it could be the difference between a twenty percent burn and a one percent burn. That is made up in such a way that, hence the upside-down triangle thing, that's the reason it's wrote that way, 'cause a lot of a lot smarter people than me figured out, "Hey, you know what?

Uh, I don't want to wear rubber gloves. I don't want to wear FR. I don't want to do any of that." Okay. Well, eliminate the power. Turn it off. There you go. Problem solved. Obviously, we can't do that. People like power. That would be the safest way to do things. Hence, you got all them other steps in there to keep your butt safe.

But at the end of the day, there's no safety man that I know of or no company that's gonna have a guy standing behind a guy on, on a pole or in a bucket going, "Hey, did you get your glasses on? Hey, you roll your sleeves down?" You a grown up, buddy. With that comes responsibilities. Ain't nobody out there gonna make, make sure you're doing these things.