Addressing Mental Health in the Trades

Welcome, everyone.

We'll wait just a a couple more seconds for to let people jump on and join, and then we'll get rolling.

Outstanding. Looks like we have quite a few people, already on and, man, huge huge audience today, which I'm really excited about.

You know, it feels a bit odd to say that I'm thrilled to be here today and to have this discussion as this topic has so many facets to it. You know, some thrilling, some scary, some eye opening, and and all of it tends to have stigma attached especially in this industry. So I'm really excited to be having this discussion with Brady Hansen particularly today. From the time we first met and connected, around really our shared beliefs of that blind workers could not simply survive the trade, but but could thrive in it.

I just felt like we had a a a really great connection on that, and, we were both aligned on on how to make that, how to continue to make that possible. If I remember correctly, we actually had a shared perspective on the fact that, you know, every human really is interconnected and you can't separate the body from the brain, experiences, home like, birth life, etcetera. And so, but before we get ahead of ourselves, I'd love to do a couple intros, so we probably get, rolling the right direction.

So for for those of you who are not familiar with Vimocity, we offer a platform and solution custom built for the utility industry. So we're specifically helping safety and operational leaders keep their team safe and and prepared for the demands of the job every day.

There are really a lot of components to impacting workforce resilience, and availability, but often overlooked and and I think in fact more frequently avoided rather than overlooked is the topic we're talking about today, which is mental health and resilience. So we're really dedicated to solving for this and and spending a bunch of, time, energy, and efforts to make sure that that we bring light to the right things at the right times in this in this process. So, personally, I'll just, introduce myself a little bit. I've spent the majority of my career focusing on maximizing human potential. So that's both with the individuals and teams and just knowing how the mind can be the most powerful asset and almost simultaneously can be our worst enemy. So I'm really focusing on that, in my career and and kind of spending a lot of years in that.

And I'm I'm, of course, incredibly honored to be working in the industry that my grandfather worked in so many years ago that really brought me into the trade. And, I have other family, like my brother-in-law that's, also connects with Brady, who, teaches folks in the line trade. So, just extremely honored to be here today. Thanks for joining us today and and kinda digging in. But most importantly and more importantly than me, joining me today is Brady Hanson, founder of Ritten and Red training that may many of you know, seasoned lineman.

His impact has reached not just within the states, but internationally.

And, of course, Brady, welcome. Really excited to have you here today. And maybe just highlighting your your career began as a lineman in Idaho with IBEW Local seventy seven, but your passion really has taken you all over the globe, you know, to South America and other things like that that maybe you can touch on a little bit. You've been honored, of course, of the twenty eighteen IBEW journeyman mentor of the year, which means, a lot that it's mentor of the year, not just journeyman. And then, of course, last year, really, exciting for me to witness was, you getting inducted in the ILR hall of fame, as well. So just lots of things that, you have done to dedicate your true career overall to really elevating those safety standards in the industry. And so if you don't mind, I'd love it if you just spend a a couple of minutes just kinda describing a little bit more of your history and what brought you to where you are today.

Well, I saved money from delivering newspapers and, branded cabs, and I invested in utility stocks.

And when I decided that I didn't wanna get a degree in in, finance, I knew about the utility industry because I've been seeing glossy annual reports that show these awesome images of hydroelectric dams and substations and, transmission lines and stuff. So I gravitated, towards it, and it's gone by in an eye blink, man.

That's amazing. Tell us just a little bit more about, how you, found yourself in written and read from, kind of your history, of line work.

One of my, instructors in the apprenticeship program and a a mentor, mine by the name of Harvey Haven called me when I was working at Avista. Harvey, had spent years traveling across the country, kinda delivering post journeyman education in, personal protective grounding through his iconic dirt box, training style and, also rigging and stuff. And he called me and he said that he was gonna hang it up, and he wanted me to carry the torch for him. So he shipped me a dirt box, and I took it up to Jack Stewart and started to, play with it while I was, teaching up there at the pre apprentice lineman school.

And, eventually, I got, confident enough with it that I started to do, training for other utilities and other utilities in other nations as well. And then the next thing you knew, I was out of vacation time. So I had to, leave my good utility job and and start something, and I decided to call it written and read for, obvious reasons and never looked back, I guess.

That's awesome. Talk just a little bit about, how you either incorporate kinda mental health into this, and I know we're gonna dig into this a little bit more, or, you know, the the role that that plays in kind of your trainings and and how you, actually roll this out.

So so the way I try to integrate it into, the post journeyman education that I'm trying to target is to really kinda just have the freedom to be curious about it to begin with. And then the idea of utilizing it as a tool and the recognition that many of us, kinda innately know that of all of the assets that an organization has, it's the brains that are perhaps the most important one.

Everyone can buy trucks. Everyone can buy wires. Everybody can buy transformers and etcetera.

But it's the brains that are the secret sauce that really create organizational success and safe outcomes in the workplace and expedient troubleshooting, expertly done, tail boards. It's our our brains that make us great. So when you see iconic images of the utility industry, it will commonly, show some linemen up on a transmission tower or a pole with kind of a snowy background or some sort of sweeping vista. And that's that's kind of a very physical picture.

But people that do work in the utility industry deal with abstract concepts all the time. Daily, we work with volts, and I can't recall ever personally meeting a volt and talking to a volt.

Amps, resistance, ohms, those are those are abstract concepts.

So when it comes to some of the abstract contact, con, structs around, brain skills or or mental health skills, I find it pretty easy, to to have that discussion with people, especially because people in our industry are profoundly good at using tools.

Show them how to use a tool, put the tool in their hand, and, wow, we make magic happen twenty four hours a day, three hundred and sixty five days a year.

I I love that, Brady. Thanks for thanks for sharing that. You know, it occurs to me, one of the things that's really been most striking to me is is really these mental health challenges are, I can I think almost silently claiming more lives in the trades than any of the physical hazards that we that that we have identified? Right?

And Yeah. Especially built on, you know, because we're built on an industry of toughness, we often overlook believe that the psychological toll, right, of the work and the cost of staying silent, what that kinda means overall. I was reviewing some really sobering facts that we kinda highlight internally, as our teams are are focused on this and and how we're, supporting this. And, you know, we spend this incredible amount of time kinda focused on SIFs and their prevention, And in construction as a whole, work related deaths overall, I think account for, you know, three point five to to seven depending on the the staff that you look at per hundred thousand. Right? So so, you know, those are those are serious things to look at. We always spend so much time on those SIFs overall.

What was fascinating to look at is suicide rates leave that number in the dust with fifty six out of a hundred k. Right? So you're talking about three point five versus fifty six. And then we actually go even further than that and identify that drug overdoses, you know, creates even more of a staggering rate of a hundred and sixty two per a hundred thousand folks.

So that's nearly three x the suicide rate. So it's like the scaling model of of, scariness and and kind of anxiety for us who are focused on, you know, trying to help in that area as you look at where we really should be focusing our time, energy, and effort to impact the trades, to impact these deaths overall. And of course, at Vivocity, we spend a lot of time on how the physical being connects to the human and being in that. But, you know, I I think as a result of of us actually figuring out how a human connects with the brain and that you can't actually remove those.

Yeah. Can't separate those. I think there's just so much power in that. And, actually, that's gonna be the next question I have for you, but I wanna just spend just a moment to highlight, you know, really this idea today that we're bringing to to folks is creating space to hear really from you who who have has been on both sides of the equation. Right? As a leader, as a trainer, and as a journeyman.

And and we hope that really listeners today will walk away with perspective on what you've learned as well as some very practical steps that they can think about that they can integrate and operate in that. And, as we talk about this, over the past few months and years, I have been unbelievably blown away by the support from the community, by utilities overall, by, certainly by, operational leaders and folks. And and I actually just threw together a a little slide that, hopefully, you can pull up right now that shows some of the logos of the organizations who are, attending. And I really just wanted to, you know, really commend these folks for their focus, for their attention, for for spending the time to be with us today, for being curious and and kinda digging into that process because I think that is, as you'll talk about a little bit later, you know, the first step in in in really jumping into this and removing this from being a stigma into something that we can all address and talk about and kinda navigate through.

So, I guess the the first question to kinda dive back in here is, you know, you've spent decades in the field. Share a little bit of the themes that you've seen when it comes to how mental health is viewed and and and kinda handled overall on the trades.

You know, there I see some evolution, and I I consider it to be very positive evolution. So at a variety of industry conferences and IBW safety conferences, I've seen where very well attended presentations, discussing substance abuse, discussing suicide.

And, just recently on the Power Line podcast, Ryan Lucas had a therapist on.

So I I think we're finally at at the point right now where where, people are kinda getting tough and are willing to do the tough work. And the the tough work is sometimes work inside, and sometimes the tough work is checking in with somebody else.

Sometimes the tough work is talking to somebody. Sometimes the tough work is, using a EAP number or a veteran's hotline number or whatever is appropriate or maybe talking to a faith leader.

I I kinda think there's a little bit of, an old school stigma that guys don't wanna talk about it or, guys are just too masculine to to, have some awareness about, mental health stuff, and I I don't think that's true anymore. I think I think that's kind of a, a bygone relic in an old, ugly stereotype.

I know firsthand a number of people in my my industry that have, shared with me some work that they've done on themselves, and I've done some myself. So I consider that to be really good because in an industry like ours, we do have risk factors, occupational injuries that sometimes lead to prescription medicines that aren't great, normalization about alcohol use, sometimes high occupational demands, long hours away from home, and then then, of course, also witnessing things that, sometimes we wouldn't wanna witness. So all of those things, kinda added together, I think, in the last several decades in a lot of just a lot of disciplines, not just not just the electric utility industry.

I've recently was listening to a podcast that said that firefighters are more likely to die of suicide than they are in a house fire.

I'm I'm also heard that, veterans from the global war on Ontario, more of them have died by suicide now than were actually killed by roadside bombs and, and bullets.

So this dynamic is there. It's palpable.

Virtually everyone knows somebody, who's been impacted by sort of the ugliest element of of mental health and that's suicide.

But the good news is there's a lot of people that are willing to listen and wanna do something about it. And I I think that's probably the best thing about, this topic in the utility industry. We are get it done kind of people.

Yeah. You know, you talk about that mentality of of tough it out and, you know, of course, we see historically, the badge of honor that used to be worn by, you know, especially, seasoned journeyman felt like historically that it was a I'm broken down that shows that I work hard worked hard. It shows that I gave everything to this trade.

And so seeing that mentality, be applied to mental health can be really dangerous. And I think you're talking about seeing some of those changes, and and there's a lot more openness to that. When you think about, kinda taking it down to the crew level, you know, when you're talking about crews working together and communicating together a little bit more than from safety teams down or from, operational leaders down and folks like that, Is that tough it out mentality still, is it is it, more common, as you as you get all the way down to the crews or less common? Is there are there changes from kind of the crew dynamics of how they're communicating with each other, how willing they are to talk about the stuff, and and navigate it through? Yeah.

John, that's a really good question.

To be honest with you, I would have to say it depends. I think on on great crews, it's a pretty easy conversation to have because you kinda have these connections of trust.

And and when you're when you're on a crew that has these connections of trust, you can admit things that are real or you can talk about problems.

In crews or in organizations where those, connections to trust have not been fostered or not been maintained, it's definitely a lot harder.

Yeah.

You know, you said something earlier that I wanted to double, click on around curiosity.

When you talk about trust, when you talk about curiosity, how do those two things align? What does what does curiosity do to build trust?

When when we kinda think about the use of curiosity as a tool, it changes the way our brain works, and it literally makes us a better listener.

And so when we're when we're going through a work process or when we're troubleshooting a a circuit issue or when we're conducting a tail board or when we're having a discussion with somebody, when we have healthy curiosity, we can discover things by asking questions that don't seem laden with judgment or laden with risk.

And a lot of times, curiosity brings us surprising information that we did not have at the onset.

And when somebody, expresses true curiosity about another human being, human beings reciprocate.

They feel liked. They feel needed. They feel appreciated. They feel, honored, valued, etcetera.

So being curious about someone and asking someone about their life, their feelings, their mood, their attitudes, etcetera, is one of the best ways to reinforce a relationship or to forge a new relationship.

Man, so you you create that opportunity for conversations, relationship, etcetera, and that really puts you in a position of it feels like to me being able to identify when somebody is struggling.

Maybe just talk a little bit about what that looks like when you know, how to recognize that somebody is, struggling. Are there signs that often go unnoticed or misread?

What are some of the things that you that you see or or can experience or witness that that provide you with that red flag to say, okay. I need to engage with this person.

Yeah. So, I've kinda learned this, the hard way, so to speak. And I think my the most valuable resource I've had is the, National Suicide Prevention Hotline. So, currently, that number is nine eight eight.

I have a lovely hard hat sticker with nine eight eight on it on on this laptop that I'm speaking to you from right now.

Oftentimes when discussing this in our industry, I will call the National Suicide Prevention hotline the day before and let them know that I wanna call them on speakerphone in a room full of fifty to a hundred and fifty Lima. And I just wanna have a sample conversation so people know what it looks like, know what it sounds like, know knows how it works.

And I love those people. Many of them are volunteers.

Two powerful tools that I've gotten from them is when you see a behavioral change or when you know somebody's going through this stuff, get curious.

So, one example of a behavioral change that they shared with me that I thought was, pretty important from a safety standpoint, when somebody suddenly starts taking shortcuts or when they stop using PPE, and that is dramatically different than what they've done in the past.

So if somebody suddenly starts to engage in more and more risky behaviors, that can be, not necessarily is, but it can be an indication of what their own personal view of self is. If they value themselves less, they're more likely to engage in risky behaviors.

So when somebody is trying to give things away that are near and dear to them, when somebody starts to get withdrawn, when, somebody is, abusing substances, or using substances way more than they have in the past, when somebody's struggling with mood issues like irritability or anger or sullenness.

And, the thing I love about the the volunteers on the National Suicide Prevention hotline, they told me, Brady, be alignment.

In so many words.

They said the best thing you can do is just be blunt.

Be blunt and to the point and in a environment where it makes sense, just get to the chase and ask somebody, are you thinking about suicide?

Now I love that as alignment because we have a well founded reputation for being very blunt and very curt and very to the point. We're very matter of fact kind of people. So I'm sitting in truck with somebody.

He doesn't seem like he's doing well or she doesn't seem like he's doing well. Let me just ask, are you thinking about suicide? Now the reality is many, many people think about suicide.

It's a thought. What we do with that thought is another matter.

So, if the answer is yes then we have to ask a follow-up question and the follow-up question is a barometer. It's a troubleshooting tool like a blown cutout is or like a multimeter is. It's a barometer of how serious they are or maybe how far down the pathway they are. The second question is, do you have a plan?

If they are thinking about suicide and they do have a plan, they've gone way past just having some errant thought that briefly comes into their mind and they they dismiss it.

Now they're starting to put the steps in in motion to act upon it. And at that point, in an appropriate manner for that person in that setting, we should take action, which is why I thoroughly encourage everyone to either commit nine eight eight to memory or put it in your put it in your phone contacts.

We've had documentaries and articles and stories and statistics ad nauseam about suicide.

Those aren't reversing the rate.

The only thing that will reduce the rate is when a bunch of people look at this natural disaster for what it is. It's a disaster that will naturally occur when people are lonely and stressed and hurting inside and we pick up tools and we go on disaster response.

And those tools I think are relationships, curiosity, empathy, and, being willing to get tough and ask somebody a tough question.

And and once you do it a few times, it's it's it's not very tough at all. So, John, can I try it with you? Imagine you and I are sitting in a truck right now.

Yes. Absolutely.

John, I've I've noticed, lately you've seen it seems like you're under a lot of pressure or there's something going on.

And, man, I just wanna ask you a question. Are you thinking about suicide?

Man, what are you talking about? Like, I guess, don't we all a little bit?

Yeah. Yeah. We all do.

Yeah.

When you're thinking about suicide, have you thought up a plan? Have you have you made a plan?

No. No. I haven't.

Bing. Home run.

I I think little actions like that could be huge.

So powerful. So powerful.

You know, I'm thinking overall as we as we you know, if we step back a little bit to thinking about mental health, thinking about crew safety overall, thinking about decision making on the job, what are some of the ways that, you know, if we just look at mental health overall Mhmm.

That those challenges can directly, you know, affect crew safety, decision making on the job, things along those lines if somebody is in a in a challenged position. Maybe they're not all the all the way down to the suicide place, and and that thought process, but but they're still you know, they're in an unhealthy environment. Right? You you're seeing those things of the the anger, sadness, shame, whatever it might be.

But how does that impact job? How does that impact the team? How does that impact, overall? What are the what are the risks there?

Well, it can do things like cultivate dangerous biases.

It can silence people and lead, lead them to be less inclined to, speak up or point something out.

It can make people feel, demotivated, less inclined to participate as a team.

It can make people feel lonely.

It can make people feel hostile. So when we when we kinda examine what mental health does in in the crew context, it's our brain. It's that incredible tool that we we carry around underneath our our hard hats. It's it's the brain that fosters the relationships that support good tail boards and good crew activity.

So a lot of times, I I like to try to reduce, the idea of being alignment down to being a brain because it's my brain that activates the muscles that help me climb a pole. It's my brain that activates my eyes and ears so I notice a hazard. It's my brain that helps me understand appropriate ways or timely, circumstances to bring something up. So if I can have some self awareness about that and really kinda dig into important stuff involving how I foster, good crew dynamics or good, dynamics with an organization that I'm working with, with, I can be a plus one.

I can do a lot more than I've done in the past. And the cool thing about brains, contrary to what I heard as a as a kid, brains do continually grow new neurons through a process called neurogenesis.

So unlike my crescent wrench, it will wear out or my, hammer handle that will eventually break or my gaps that need to be sharpened, my brain, if I give it, the appropriate materials, will get better and better and better over time.

And that's that's, comforting to me because physically, I can kinda maintain and and get some incremental growth, but as I age, there will be an inevitable physical decline for me as alignment.

So Right. My brain, on the other hand, is a different story.

I can get smarter. I can get more insightful. I can become a better communicator. I can become a better listener.

I can become a better, teacher.

And many of those same components that make me, a good troubleshooter, a good foreman, a good lineman, a good apprentice, a good, journeyman also make me a good or a better father, husband, son, citizen.

Man, so powerful.

We have a couple of questions coming in, and, you know, some of them revolve around I'll summarize here. You know? And we hear this from a lot of different safety professionals. I know this matters, but I don't know how to start the conversation.

Right? Maybe I haven't built that trust or I I need to continue to build that trust. You talked about curiosity, etcetera. What advice do you have for leaders who really wanna break that silence around mental health, but aren't sure kinda where to begin?

And just from a time check, we're getting, kinda close to this might be our last one. So anything you wanna include that we didn't get to, also don't hesitate to respond to that as well.

One one thing that I I really like to do is I like to use imagery and I like to use analogy.

It's it's a learning, technique in which you take some new information that you're trying to integrate and you relate it to something you already know. So, for instance, attachment styles.

If we wanted, to really, drill down what makes Greg Crews, I think a lot of it is kinda embodied in a field of work called attachment theory or attachment styles.

So if I was gonna talk about attachment styles with a room of people in this industry, I would start by using vectors, and then I would also, craft a narrative about what it looks like for, let's say, an apprentice with anxious attachment or the brand new journeyman on the crew who's probably gonna have some anxious attachment. Because if I can look at a line and see that it represents voltage for a transformer connection, I can also look at a line that refers to how well connected I feel to the people around me.

So I would I would start there, and I would also wanna try to pull on the strings of something called the healthy mind platter, which is, I like to think about it like my brain's tool belt that I that I wanna constantly be checking and working on. It's the things that support, a healthy brain. It's some connection time. It's some play time. It's some downtime.

It's time in. It's physical time. It's focused time.

It's, time sleeping. So when we get those components and we put them together, our brain really thrives and really grows. So if I was gonna have a conversation with somebody, I would wanna try to include several of those. Play, for instance, is a great icebreaker and a great camaraderie builder. And, unfortunately, I think this, nasty prescription drug, is destroying that in the utility environment. Now I I recall a time when we used to have, basketball hoops and, dartboards and card games, and people engaged in a little bit of work appropriate play.

Play also brings connectedness.

Play also brings curiosity.

Play also, brings the establishment of healthy boundaries and respecting one another's boundaries. So, do the tough work and think of ways to have work appropriate play.

Man, Brady, this has been so valuable. I feel like we have two or three more sessions that we're gonna have to record to, pick up on all these, things that I know, you and I have talked about, that that would be really valuable for this audience. But, hopefully, this just, you know, operates as a as a kind of lead in, for, both some some tips and tactics to to kinda take away and and think about with your teams the way you're approaching it. Of course, from a being able to connect with, Brady or myself, you know, our our, contact information now, I believe, should be up on the screen. Yeah. It is up on the screen.

You know, Brady, I know that you're very, very open and and welcoming to safety leaders, ops leaders, folks overall, linemen, directly reaching out to you, and I would I would encourage them to do that. Same thing from a vivacity standpoint. We are, constantly focusing on this as a as a key outcome that we're we're we're interested in and really importantly wanting to to kinda push forward. So to learn more about Brady, you can jump on written and read and go from there.

Additionally, just wanted to highlight, we have some, additional events that you might be interested in. You will also, from being on this podcast, we'll get, some resources that we're building out on our mental health and resilience series, and, of course, more to come from from Brady and I as we go forward. Brady, thank you so much for attending. The folks that are on there, thank you so much for, prioritizing this, for, recognizing how essential this is to, to to take steps towards solving and knowing that there's a there's a road ahead of us to solve it, but, couldn't be anything more important in my mind that we need to focus on.

Thank you so much, Brady.

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