Psychological Safety: Combating the Hidden Dangers to Frontline Workers

Jenny Lavin | Union Care Solutions

Dr. Kevin Rindal | Vimocity

It's one of the most deadly realities in the trades, the pressures that workers face at home, on the job, and in the spaces in between. So, there's no real boundaries for people to ever kind of get a break from the things, you know, that they're dealing with. Jenny Lavin, founder of Union Care Solutions, breaks down why this crisis demands industry level attention and what it really takes to build safe, connected, and resilient crews.

Psychological safety is kind of what happens on the crews and at the workplace. You know, a lot a lot of things are caught, not taught. This is the Work Ready podcast.

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Hello and welcome to the WorkReady podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Kevin Rindal. My guest is Jenny Lavin, founder of Union Care Solutions, which is leading the charge to address two of the biggest threats to the to the workforce athlete, suicide and overdose. If you care about the people under the hard hat, this is an episode that you'll definitely want to listen to to the very end.

Jenny, welcome to the work ready podcast. Can you share a bit about your background and what inspired you to launch Union Care Solutions?

Well, I started Unicare Solutions a couple years ago. My husband um got a new role at the union. He's the business manager of Vocal 47. Previous to that, his father Pat Lavin was business manager. I have my brother-in-laws are in the trade. They're linemen. And so my kids themselves are fourth generation IBW members. But, you know, I kind of grew up as a wife, you know, and a mother in this trade, you know, seeing the families, going to picnics, um, you know, traveling, seeing what the IBW, you know, has to offer. And um you know it's always been about family and connection for me. And so when my husband took over and had this new role of leadership and my kids were growing up, they were starting to enter the trade. So, you know, priorities kind of shifted and I started to see a lot of things that he was dealing with with the membership and the families and um it was heartbreaking. you know, he was going to funerals for people and when you start to find out what was going on and that they were either drugreated or um you know, people were dying by suicide and it and it just it kind of hit me and we were having a hard time dealing with it. Just as you know, a husband and wife, you know, as a wife trying to support her husband in the job that he does, this stuff takes a toll.

And so we started to look and see, you know, what else is there? Like that we're missing something, you know, because if we're having a hard time with this, we know other people are having a hard time with this. And so that was how um I kind of found my way along the way. It wasn't something I had started out really clear about what was going to what we were going to find. And so we started to look at maybe chapency and seeing if there was like a gap in support for people within the trade. And that was how we found something called um critical incident stress management. Um and so it's something that it can kind of support people um after there's really no care for these guys after critical incidences. And so it's kind of blossomed from there and we've added peer support and some other things.

I've seen you present at a few different conferences and most recently at the International Line Rodeo Safety Conference and you really dug in deep into some of the issues that uh and the pressures that people are facing on the job currently and then you provided some really great solutions that people could walk away with. And and so first question that I have for you is what are the pressures that you hear from frontline workers and people in the trades both at work and home that are really driving some of these you know these issues that you just talked about like overdoses and and suicides.

What are those pressures?

Well, so I teach a lot of the classes at the local JETC. So I have the honor of you know teaching apprentices at different levels of their apprenticeship. And so um you know a lot of things that I hear from them you know that it's very normal for the trade right you have travel um there's they're away from their families they're sleeping in hotels you know and so you have the job aspect of it but also you have the family aspect and implications of that as well right and so you know it's hard to be a provider and be present at the same time and so you've got people that are missing you know soccer games or um you know I've heard christenings for their children you know like these big events that they're not able to be a part of right and so it not only causes the stress for them that you know and they miss it you know they love their families they want to be a part of it but they have to work but it's also the dynamic that's left at home you know that dealing with you know their spouse is being upset that that they're not able to make this or maybe they don't understand right or you know leaving the kids at home and now there's so much access to. So if somebody leaves work and they're having an argument with a spouse at home, chances are, you know, they might get a text later, you know, referencing that argument or, you know what I mean? And so then they're not able to be fully present at the job. they're bringing in these like real life family struggles onto the job and then you know which creates stress on the job and then sometimes they're bringing that stress of the job back at home. So there's no real boundaries for people to ever kind of get a break from the things you know that they're dealing with.

And when you talk to crews and you have these conversations because of that that scenario that you painted of people being on the road missing key events, the stress that happens like what do people do to cope with that and you know how do they turn that off or

Yeah I think they cope with it the best that they can you know I mean now like I said before we do have phones so there is a silver lining to that you can FaceTime, you can call you can stay connected Ed, you know, you can call home and read a book to your kids, you know, for bedtime. You know, you get to check in that way. Um, but it really does seem the people that are successful that I have seen that are in this trade that are still doing the same stuff, right? They're still waking up at 3 in the morning. They're traveling. they're out of town, you know, they have good relationships with their spouses and they invest in the time, you know, and and and it can be very hard, right, to to to step away. Like sometimes, you know, you get ready for work, you know, and and you know what you need to do. You get ready, you get your lunch, you pack up, you know, but how do you get ready for coming home, you know? How do you like get yourself mentally ready? Like, you know what? I'm gonna go and I'm gonna I'm tired, but I'm gonna go sit and, you know, I'm gonna have dinner with my family or, you know, I'm gonna have that conversation before bedtime, you know, with my child. And so the people that I have seen that do it really well and, you know, you can kind of tell when you meet because like I said, we get to meet a lot of families and stuff and you can tell like the wives are on it. You know, they're taking care of the stuff at MO. They they have mastered the art of cover and move, you know what I mean? And so, um, I would say it's just we really only get these small moments, you know, and this the little things are the big things. And so, it's really just the, you know, staying connected with the family and being present and kind of rechecking and saying, "Okay, I know I'm tired, but okay, what do you need?" You know, and being engaged and present in the moments that you do have, I think can make a big difference.

Yeah. And I've seen such incredible examples of that. You know, over the last 10 years, I've really focused my career on working in the trades and I've been able to go to family picnics or the the IBW picnics and different family events and international line rodeo and even local rodeos and you just see that community aspect and how much people care for each other and their families and and that's such an awesome culture.

I do want to shift gears though because in this presentation you talked about those pressures though. those pressures can mount and what we're seeing is uh and this is where we get into I think the the reality of the statistics is that you know OSHA has what they call the fatal four slip strips and falls caught in between electrocution and struck by those are the four most common ways that that people die from on the job injuries. but you talked about the fatal fifth which is mental health and it relates to the overdose and the suicide rates that we're seeing and you presented some pretty startling statistics in that presentation. Can you share more on that?

Yeah. So, um, for the fatal fifth, you know, mental health, I think when we think about mental health, you know, there's another component that I have kind of found along the way, um, which is psychological safety. And so, when we think about mental health, that's kind of the way I kind of understand it. It's like that's what we bring, you know, that's that's my own mental health. That's how I process things, the way that I'm responding to things, what I'm bringing into the job as a person, right? That's my own health. Psychological safety is kind of what happens on the crews and at the workplace, right? And so if it's just like we think of a physically safe work environment, I'm sure there's a million things we could think about, you know, run it through OSHA, all the things, right? Um, but like when we talk about psychological safety, it really is how the crew dynamic is, right? And is this a a place where people are, you know, where it's a safe place to learn or to grow or, you know, just to be? And there isn't. And and depending on what we and they go hand in hand, right? Because what we bring if we're not well, you know, if we're struggling, if we're stressed, if we're struggling with depression or anxiety or we're angry and we're bringing that in onto the job, that's going to affect the work environment and it's going to affect the people that are around us.

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I think that that is such a key component to the solution is creating that uh psychologically safe environment. And so we'll definitely want to double click on that and talk about, you know, some of the barriers to getting health help. Uh but going back to the some of those stats that you listed. So when it comes to workplace injuries, uh 13 out of every 100,000 on the job uh experience a fatal work injury, but the rates of suicide are 45 individuals per 100,000. And the rate of overdose deaths is 130 deaths per 100,000. So again, just to put things in context, four times the number of on the job uh deaths are uh is the suicide rate and 10 times is the rate of overdose deaths. And so I'd like to understand that a little bit more. I know that you've really looked into this and fortunately what we're seeing is a real positive trend over the last year or two in terms of some of those numbers coming down. It it really peaked definitely right after CO. But um as you've done the research, what are some things that you would attribute to to those again alarming rates?

Yeah. Well, so like the statistics like those are like some of the national averages. And so at local 47, you know, we've been tracking and so for the local we've had five fatal work injuries, 19 suicides, and 22 drug overdoses. And you're right, they have leveled gratefully, right? And so um but it was something that um really peaked after COVID, right? Like that 2003 like um and 2002 we saw such an uptick of that stuff. And so that was really when I started doing Union Care Solutions and kind of trying to find out like what are we missing, right? Um but it's it's hard because you know when we talk about um you know the drug overdoses and the suicides and you know and and those are just the numbers that we get. sometimes people don't report it, you know, and so there are like insurance reasons why people don't report suicides. And so, um, it's something that, you know, when you think of the suicides, you know, so a lot of those have had drugs and alcohol be part of the process, right? And so, you know, drug and alcohol misuse is something that is very prevalent in the trade. It's prevalent um, you know, across the board. And it's something, you know, when we talk about alcohol, you know, referencing, you know, apprentices and things like that, you know, when they're going out of town, you know, they're away from their families, all there really is they show up for work, they go back to the hotel, and then they go to the bar. Like, it is a very normal standard thing. There's not much else to do, right? So, drinking becomes um a very acceptable form of, you know, camaraderie and getting together. Um, and so it, you know, which, you know, can be okay, but when somebody's already struggling and they're using the substance to get by or to, um, you know, kind of numb themselves or to check out, that's where, you know, it becomes a it becomes an issue, you know, and so, um, I've been in recovery, you know, I'm sober today, gratefully, and it's something that has been a struggle. And so, and it's and it's a struggle when you know you're dealing with things and you still have to show up for work, right? Like you have to kind of muscle through it and you you have to pull yourself together and so you know it becomes kind of this cycle. you know, you're drinking all night, you go wake up, you know, you're probably hung over, you know, that might level out about noon, you know, after a gas station hot dog and a monster, you know, and so then you're, you know, getting ready and then you do it again, you know, and and um I think that's what's hard because it is acceptable. And so if somebody is struggling with something, you know, they might not be able to talk about that because who are they going to talk to? you know, everybody on the crew is they're all doing the same thing, you know, and so they kind of keep it bottled up and it seems to just, you know, add up, you know.

So, one of the encouraging things that I've noticed is that just the whole topic of mental health has become much more at the forefront with the utilities and construction companies that we work with. And it's something that they're actively trying to address it and come up with solutions and talk about it. And that's been something that I'd say has really accelerated over the last several years. Uh but what are some of the barriers that keep people from getting help? And even if you know resources are present, what are what are some of those things that often times um and you talked about psychological safety. I think psychological safety if if that's not there, people are not going to get help. But what are some of the other barriers that maybe prevent people from, you know, speaking up or raising their hand?

Well, I think you know it, you know, construction and specifically our industry is a male-dominated field and so you kind of have this manup culture, right? very stoic, which you know, you know, it's kind of like suck it up, buttercup, you know, you throw some dirt on it, you keep going, you know, and it works for a lot of people for a while and it works until it doesn't, you know, and so I think there is just the culture of that that men are told, you know, that if they're struggling, then they're not cut out for this work, you know, so they so they don't even consider if they're struggling or not, you know, or um that if they that they're weak if they need help, which is a lie. Right. Everybody needs help sometimes. And so, you know, I think there's that the culture part of it. Um, and then also there's job consequences, you know, if you know, if you're not fit for duty or if you say you have a problem and then you maybe have a foreman that doesn't like you and so then they do here's a random drug test or you know what I mean, they'll use that information against you, you know?

And right now, like even in construction, I was kind of shocked to see like there is no PTO. So like at the utilities you get vacation or right you know paid time off. That doesn't happen in construction. There's no PTO, there's no sick time. So it's hard enough to get yourself to go to a doctor appointment, let alone now you have to take time off and you're not getting paid. So I think that's a huge barrier, right? Um and then also sometimes just not understanding or knowing. You know, when I started this and I started taking the classes and all the classes I've been taking are things anybody can take. Their certifications, anybody on a crew can take. That was really important to us at the nonprofit is that we build resources that, you know, you don't have to have a master's or a bachelor's to get educated and find resources, right? And so when I was taking these classes, I was like, "Oh my goodness, I think I've struggled with depression and anxiety my whole life." And here I thought, you know, I'm just white knuckling motherhood. I have, you know, my kids are I had three under three, you know, and so I just had no idea that some of these things were I was going to be able to address them, right? And so had I had some of these tools earlier, I think that there were things that I probably would have had an easier time with and maybe not been so hard on myself, right? I think when we struggle with mental health, we're so hard on ourselves because we think it's something that we can just figure out or suck it up, right? And um you know, walk off, right? But it's like if somebody breaks their leg, you do not expect them to go run a marathon like the next week, you know? And so I think we think that when we struggle with things, we don't give oursel the space to deal with it, you know, because there's a lot of guilt and shame and and sometimes we just don't understand it. And so I think that um you know, also just the basic fear of judgment, right? Like sometimes when we share stories, you know, it's and we don't realize that there's a lot of people that deal with this stuff. and you know teaching the classes you know and I you know I've there's pro I've probably taught maybe 150 to 200 apprentices and it's like they're it's the same stuff every class it's all the same stuff like there's like every once in a while I'll hear something new that's like wow that's out of pocket like that's a new one you know but but I would say 95% of the things that everybody struggles with it's all the same right it's the stress it's the being away from home it's the probably drinking too much you know it's If you know when drinking becomes and it affects your family or your relationships or your job performance, you know, um just spousal issues, you know, you know, not eating well, like I said, on the road, you know, sometimes they those are the gas station is the only option, you know, and and we know like nutrition is such an important part of mental health and you know, it can really change the way we address issues in our own life. So, um I would say those are kind of the big ones that I have seen.

Yeah. It's interesting too that you say that there's no PTO as well and the pressure to continue to work because I think about the prevalence of like muscular skull injuries and even pain on the job. I mean we we survey people with bumosity and we find sometimes that like as high as 80% of the people that are surveyed say that they're they experience pain like on a regular basis and and so that you know if you're providing for your family and you have to show up to work, you have to continue to work through it, it's easy to to go down the path of maybe taking opioids or uh you know alcohol things to deal with pain that way as a coping mechanism and it doesn't take that long um before those start to really take hold from an addictive standpoint. And I I remember you sharing some of the stats just related to the potency of opioids and how those can create a dependence. Do you still see that as being a major factor? I know yeah, we've taken some big strides to try to get people away from that, but it's still present, I think.

Yeah, because it's an easy it's a quick fix, right? And so if somebody doesn't have time to go to the doctor or their shoulders bugging them, you know what I mean? they're probably going to pop a pill, right?And so, and it only takes something like eight days for your body to become addicted to the substance. And so, you know, and also the, you know, the thing about opioids, right? It's like you, the damage is still there, right? So, you're not addressing like the root cause of the injury, right? So, you're just kind of masking the pain and so you're still out there working, probably creating more damage to the joint or the shoulder or the knees, you know what I mean? Um, and so it's something that it it's a quick fix and it's a temporary fix, but it can cause other issues, you know, and we've had, you know, I've heard stories of guys, you know, working in Vegas because and it's hot during the day and so they work at night and so in order to, you know, stay up, they're taking methamphetamines, you know, because they have to work at night. And so, and it just becomes something that is just part of the job. It's very prevalent. It's very common, you know, and it's accepted because these guys are showing up to do a job and they're they're they need to provide for their families, you know, and so that's where when we talk about the job comp, you know, consequences and and how do we like you had mentioned there's a lot of talk, you know, when we talk about some of the higher level organizations with IBW and with Nika and with utilities, you know, you have, you know, the people in the office and that that kind of run things at these higher levels. they're interested in this conversation because they are impacted as well, right? And so, um, but it's kind of like how do we create a like a recovery friendly work environment, right? And how do we talk about this stuff and get people help without saying, "Oh, you know, you pop dirty, we're going to fire you." You know, because a lot of times they just go back to work. They're in the same industry. They're finding their way somewhere else. and and and so it's not good for the industry on a work perspective. But the reality is is if we care about people and we say we care about people and mental health, it can't just be a box to check. We have to be willing to learn and to say, you know what, I don't struggle with that, but I know that you do and I know a lot of people do and we're going to find answers to try to get you the help that you need and we're going to protect your job until you come back and you're ready, you know, to deal with this stuff. And so there are people that I think that would get help if they could and um you know some of the stuff is above my pay grade you know with the way that guys have their paid time off and things like that. But those are things that we can look at and these are practical ways right and these are things you know giving people the paid time off to be able to go to the doctor you know um or go seek recovery without worrying that you know that they're not going to have a job when they come back.

One of the things that I think your organization is doing really well is creating a space for people to have that conversation and to to speak openly and um I want to when I say tough guy mentality. I want to say men and women because I know a lot of women who are in the trades as well. But just I I I do want to I think sometimes you're tougher. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there is that tough guy mentality where you don't want to talk about it. the rub the dirt on it. I mean, it kind of go almost goes back to old school sports. I I think about, you know, nobody talked about being injured. You just play through it. And but I think your organization, what you've been able to do is create u a forum for people to have those open conversations. And one thing that stands out to me is when we were at the local 47 safety conference, you had the panel that you led and there were several people on that panel who literally said that they're like, I never in a million years would admit my weakness to to other people on my crew. And it wasn't until I started to see my comrades fall that I realized there's a problem that we have to address. We need to start talking about that. And um they you know it was very uncomfortable for them to set themselves into an environment where they did you know talk about their vulnerabilities talk about uh you know the things that they struggled with and the interesting thing is it it gave a lot of power to other people on their crews to also step up and speak because they saw that example. Can you share and again this all goes back to like psychological safety creating an environment where people feel comfortable but maybe how you've seen some of the groups that you've helped facilitate get people to speak up who maybe normally wouldn't want to even like address any of these uh topics and and how that's emboldened other people.

Yeah. So, um, you know, the panel that you're referring to, that was the local 47, their SISM team. And so, SISM, it stands for critical incident stress management. And so, currently, there isn't any afterare for crews that experience either these near misses or fatalities um or accidents on the job, right? And so that was something that was really important and is really kind of the cornerstone of Unique Care Solutions is getting these um individuals trained, people that are in that are on the crews, right? They're not it's not an outside organization that's coming in that's that's helping them process things. That's these are the guys. These are their brothers on the crew. They've worked with them. They've known them in the industry. And so when there is a fatality or a near miss or um you know deploying these guys that are trained in critical incident stress management, they go and they do something called a debriefing. And so the debriefing is something where you take the people and it it needs to be a homogeneous group. So it's not always o it's not always good to have maybe the safety guy. You're probably isn't going to want to sit in this group. you're going to want to get the crew that was directly impacted by this critical incident, right? And so they go they go into a room that's separate and the um the the the debriefing is led by in our case another lineman that um is skilled in this has been trained in critical incident stress management. And they go over it's like a ninestep process and they talk about what they saw, you know, how they felt like anything that pops up and it's a whole thing. And what I have seen is, you know, people that have been hesitant to go in, you know, um, kind of reluctantly go and sit down and then they spend the next two and a half hours debriefing in a group with everybody that was there and they're able to process the things that they saw. They're able to kind of put together, you know, what happened. And it really is a place where they're able to talk about openly what went on, you know, and and a lot of times when we talk about accidents and things very you have legal that shows up, right? You have the safety guy, you know, there's a lot of box checking exercises that need to happen um that have nothing to do with the care of the people that were involved that just witnessed this horrific accident, right? And so it's but it's within that trusted brotherhood that they get to debrief and they get to talk, you know, and um I've been able to connect with people like some of the you know the like switchboard like grid operators that are kind of not part of the crew but they're part of what has happened. Like some of those people will don't even get touched. They don't, nobody checks on them and meanwhile they're going through all of this stuff on their own and they're dealing with probably the stress or the guilt of possibly being a part of what happened.

And so I've seen we've seen a really great, you know, when people start talking about things, other people are like, "Oh yeah, that happened to me, too." And then they start talking. And even just in our trainings, I've had um gentlemen come up to me and share stories that happened 20 years ago about, you know, being part of a car hit pole, you know, and having to, you know, and a lot of times these guys are zero responders. They're there before first responders and their job is to make sure that the scene is safe for those other guys to come in and, you know, um take care of their job, right? And so, you know, these aren't these are just things that aren't talked about, but once you start talking about it and then they're like then they're like they're like, "Well, I want to talk about it and they and they share your story, you know, and so it's um and a lot of the guys that go through it." That's why it's really important. We have the teams are kind of have found their home with some of the troublemen at the utility because again, they're out there and they're usually a crew of one. So they're rolling up at some accident, you know, at two in the morning, you know, and it's a fatality and they're dealing with that on their own, you know, and and so giving them the space to talk with each other because a lot of times they're not going to want to go home and talk with their families because they don't want to bring that stuff home, right? You know, these guys want to they kind of keep it to themselves. So, you know, the hope is that the more that they talk about it, the more it becomes normalized and it's just like, "Yeah, man. This was rough or that, you know, and it doesn't get kind of I think when people think of talking about this stuff, they think it kind of goes down and you're sitting around. It's like this kumbaya circle. We're all talking about our feelings, right? And yes, your feelings are talked about, but it becomes more just about of like replay of what happened, right? And so, um, I think that the guys that are part of it, you know, at Local 47, they've done a really good job and they do a really good job of honoring each other and checking in on each other. And, um, that's really what it comes down to is checking in on your brother and sisters in the job. And if somebody goes through something that you know that is a hard thing, check in on them. Be like, "Hey, how did that go? Like, that had to have been awful or like, you know, it was a really shitty day." You know, and sometimes just it when we say this stuff and we're able to just express it, it takes the power out of it and it goes from circling around in our head that makes us crazy and stressed and angry and then we can release it and let it go and then it's like you have such a weight lifted off your shoulders, you know, and so I've seen it and I've seen it work and um it's really impactful and so it's it's a I'm it's really cool to see the guys step up and share their stories and they can do a way better job of supporting each other than I can, right? So, a lot of those things I don't go into. I kind of stay in the background because I really do want to help build something that's kind of like this for us by us mentality. And in that case, it's for them by them. You know, we have to trust and that can be kind of the rub. It can be hard for management or some of these, you know, classifications that are sort of outside the crew to let that go and be like, "Hey, like I know you need help. I'm not the right person for that, you know, but I do know someone that is. And that can be the hardest thing to do is to support somebody from a little far away, right? It's kind of a check on our ego, you know, and um but I think when you can be a part of it and you see it work and you see these guys show up and stuff happens and they're checking in on each other on their own and you don't even have to like facilitate it, it's pretty cool to see.

So awesome, Jenny, because I bet you a lot of people listening to this uh interview are like, "Yeah, 15 years ago I experienced XYZ incident. I've never talked about it since." And I've just been internalizing that. And I'm sure that's a really common story for people in this industry. And man, it like you said, it totally takes the power out of that when you have the chance to to get it out there. And it probably builds really strong bonds too because there's so many people with that shared experience um who it opens them up for uh to have those conversations. And so I think the cool part about what you're doing is that you're just facilitating a conversation for people and letting them run with it. And sometimes uh people just need some type of structure so that they can have those conversations. And so that's one of the things that I think is great about your model. If someone is listening and they want training uh for sysm uh facilitation, what is the process on like getting certified or or just getting the training so that people can do that for their crews or their teams?

Yeah. So, we go through we partner with um or the trainings that I do are through an organization called ICISF and it's International Critical Incident Stress Foundation and they're wonderful and um it really is a lot like a lot of the people that are trained are chaplain that are through police and fire. And so, when I first started, I went to like a police officer's chaplain conference and I was, you know, trying to figure out what this stuff was. was and that was when I learned about it and I was like, "Oh my goodness, this is so rad. We need to get our the guys, you know, these guys need this stuff." And so, um, they offer trainings throughout the year. There's virtual trainings. There's been stuff at local 47 that we've put together. I'm hoping to be able to, um, put together something as like almost like a conference kind of thing where we can invite other people from the industry. That's kind of my dreams for, you know, the nonprofit. But, um, icisf.org, or they can go on there and they can learn more about it. Um they have, you know, it's it's group crisis intervention and individual crisis intervention. And so right now local 47 has something I think over a hundred people that are trained in this stuff. Um and so um they have just started ruling out like mental health first aid as well. And so they have so many trainings. They talk about, you know, emotional and spiritual support after a crisis, you know, peer-to-peer um models. And so that's kind of the next one that's on my list to take. And so they make it really easy to get this training and they're very reasonable and they just they really it's a an organization that really cares about this stuff and getting people the help that they need. And so um yeah, so they can go on there and do that. And you know, some of the other trainings that like I mentioned is this mental health first aid. That's something that anybody can take. And so, um, we've also had a lot of success with vital cog, which is, um, another training. It's a suicide prevention, um, training, and they are rolling out some extra trainings as well, like recovery friendly work environment and also peer support that I'm really excited about. So, you know, it's kind of it really kind of goes in that like that's that train, mobilize, deploy model, right? Like that's kind of narrowed it down. It's, you know, there's really nothing new under the sun. This is kind of it, right? Like we want to get people trained. We want them to be um put into peer support groups. We want them to be able to be connected. Um and then we want like we want people to be able to send people out that are trained in this stuff to do a debriefing.

So if I'm a frontline leader, you know, obviously I can go down and get the mental health first aid training, the system training just to be empowered with the tools to be able to handle stuff when when crisis uh presents. But what are some things that people can even do just to look for warning signs on their cruise that maybe something isn't okay with with one of their teammates and what can they do just very practically to support them to ask what's you know what's going on how can I support you uh because you talk a lot about like being our brother or sister's keeper like you know one of the greatest defenses against some of those stats that we talked about earlier is address like identifying it, addressing it, and then empowering people with, you know, some type of solution that they can play an active role in so that they can get people the help that they need. But what are some some signs that people could look for in others, especially on their crew, so that they could support them?

Well, and so I think first off, you know, really knowing your crew, you know, especially if you're a foreman or in any role of leadership, which I believe when you're on a crew, I mean, we're all leaders, right? Like, but you know, knowing your crew and kind of knowing when somebody is having an off day or um if they do seem agitated, I think anger and aggression, you know, can be something that is an indication of like what's going on, right? And sometimes it just the day is frustrating or you're doing something hard or it's hot or you know you didn't eat breakfast or whatever, right? But sometimes but just checking in with people like hey dude like are you okay? Like you know you know are you good? Um but also there's you know when we talk about you know suicide you know sometimes people they will say things and they will give something called an invitation and they might say something out of pocket like you know well I just you know I don't even know why I'm here or you know things that are even harder to hear. And sometimes it could just be with a guy you're working with and they're digging a hole and they're complaining about their spouse or something like that and you think nothing of it and and then they say something and you're like, "Huh?" You know, and and so I I think understanding like, you know, how do we approach people and ask them questions and, you know, have, you know, when you lead with curiosity instead of judgment, you know, I think that's a huge one. Um, and really just, you know, checking in on each other and understanding that, you know, if it was a hard day, you know, maybe call somebody after the job, you know, and be like, "Hey, dude, I know that did not go as well." Like, are you good? Like, you know, and just building the relationships. And it's going to look different for everybody, right? Like how I check in on people is going to be very different than how someone else checks in on somebody else, you know? And so you just have to show up and be mindful that um chances are everybody on the crew is going through something that you have no idea about, right? Like like whether with their family or a sickness or a stress or a bill, you know what I mean? Um and so just assuming that people are dealing with things and just giving people um you know, and just I think I don't know. I think sometimes it's just like we can be so hard on ourselves that sometimes we kind of take it out on other people too, you know, and so um I think just, you know, realizing, you know, people aren't showing up to work, you know, or they're missing a lot of work or if they're showing up to work and they're they're kind of their head's not in the game, you know what I mean? and and so just kind of figuring out like you know what's going on you know how you know because if it by the time it gets to the job you know if it affects some your performance chances are it's probably affecting your relationships at home as well right and so um just understanding that like you know sometimes you know somebody does need help calling EAP you know that's an option too I've helped people set up you know their EAP kind of teleaalth accounts and um you know checking in on people for um you know if they do if they are making like a therapy appointment which I'm a huge advocate for um that they can you know check in between those things you know so it's really just really I it's like you kind of want to find like the the you know the the magic thing and it really is just checking in on each other and and being there and being present you know so that you can kind of see when someone you know seems to be having a hard time you know um and checking in.

You know you uh share the statement that connection is protection. What are the attributes of a connected crew and what can a leader do to build connection within their crew? So a connected crew to me is like I I think communication is huge, right? And and so when we talk about like psychological safety, there's a gentleman named Timothy R. Clark and he kind of explains it really well, the stages of psychological safety. And it starts with inclusion and it goes to learner safety, um, contributor safety and challenger safety. And so, you know, when we talk about connection, it really is, do people feel included, right? Do they feel like they're part of the crew? Are they, you know, are you not making an apprentice eat by himself? You know, like that happens. So it's like, you know, you're already out of out of town and then you got to go eat by yourself or, you know, or you know, and so it's like, you know, how do you know, how do you stay connected, you know, throughout the job? I know you do tailboards in the morning, but you know, sometimes things change, you know, and so it's like, are you are you communicating that? Can someone come to you and say, "Hey, I this doesn't seem right or I have an issue with this." And and you and you actually say, "Okay, well, what's going on?" Right? And so, um, I think, you know, having camaraderie and realizing that, you know, when we talk about my brother's keeper, you know, that it's not just when things are hard, you know, it's not just a pass the bucket like we're showing up at funerals, you know, it's like my brother's keeper every day. It that means you're showing up, you're present, you're, you know, you're listening to the people on the job, you know, you're taking the minute to be like, "Okay, slow down." Right? because a lot of times we're just quick quick quick you know and you're under a deadline and you have your pressure um but to be able to stop and listen to somebody else on the crew I mean it really does build that relationship equity right and so then I think then it becomes like everybody kind of knows what's on what's happening and so if you invest it right it you in the beginning yes it might slow you down yes it might be annoying yes it might be hard you know but but then you're building that relationship ship. So the next time it's like they're more apt to come to you right before something, you know, is a problem and you have to now clean up a mess, right, which takes much longer, you know, and so um it's kind of like that saying, right? Slow is smooth and smooth is fast, you know? It's like Right. Yeah. And so, you know, it it you do it right the first time, you know, and then you don't have to come back. And I think it really is just building those relationships and listening and being a good leader and and that does require responsibility and accountability and an ownership for yourself, right? And how do you show up on the crew, you know, and you set that example, you know, a lot a lot of things are caught, not taught, right? So, like when you bring in that, you know, when people know that you they can come to you and that you're going to listen and that you're going to take the time, um, I think that it's you're just going to have a better vibe on the crew, you know, and you're going to enjoy like you should be able to enjoy the work. You're spending so much more time doing this than you are anything else in your life. Like, why not enjoy it and have good relationships and be able, you know, to have a good workday? I think that that's possible. And there are crews out there that experience that and love the people that they work for, the companies, they feel supported and that makes a huge difference in the morale. Um, and then the product of work as well, you know.

Absolutely. At the very end of your presentation, you referenced Ecclesiastes 49 through10. Two are better than one, for if either falls, his companion can lift him up. How has that shaped uh Union Care Solutions and your mission and who you are and just your passion for for this subject?

Well, you know, I you know, I started in ministry and I always thought I was going to get into women's ministry, which is kind of interesting because this is really kind of like the opposite of that, but I do have the pleasure of of, you know, talking to a lot of wives and stuff too. For me, you know, when we talk about two is better than one, like we're we're meant to do life together, right? Like when we read the Bible and we think of, you know, Christ and when he walked the earth and he had a whole he had a whole crew, right? He had 12 disciples, like God, you know, the father, the son, the holy spirit, like it's community. Like we're meant to do this life with each other. And it's so much better when we have people in our life that we can count on and that we can rely on and we can turn to. And we don't have to do it alone, you know. And there's a lot of really great people in this industry that have a heart for service that that understand what it means, you know, to be a good brother and a good sister. And I see it every day. And those are the people that I actually get to work with. you know, they're people that I have um, you know, I have a good crew of people that I go to to kind of bounce ideas off of, you know, because I've never been on a crew, you know, I don't wake up at 3 in the morning, you know, and so it's like these guys, you know, to get it, you know, from the people that are in the industry that are doing the work, that have done the work that maybe started out and are like, "Hey, I, you know, I started out in this and I was an and I did bully and I did harass people." You know what I mean? And then they've kind of come full circle in their 20, 30 years within the industry. You know, they've raised their kids, they've done their things and they've seen it and they're like, "Man, that wasn't the way I should have done it, but it was the way they did it because that was how they were trained, right?" And so, you know, when I talk to apprentices, I'm always like, when we talk about the things that, you know, are hard or that they don't like or the bullying or the harassing because it still happens, you know, that it's like, "Okay, you're going to go, you're going to be a journeyman. What kind of journeyman do you want to be? Do you know what I mean? Do you want to be the kind that that you were brought up in, you know, or do you want to be the guy that makes the difference? Right? And so it's like it's like how do we change that? And then also, you know, addressing the people that, you know, sometimes it's hard because it's like they're like, well, I wasn't treated that way when I was coming up. Like it's all great we're talking about this now. You know what I mean? And it's like and it's like, yeah, it's true and it wasn't okay. But now we're here and we have a choice and we can either do it better or we can keep doing it the same way, you know what I mean? And get the same results. And so it really does cause us to come out of our comfort zone. But when you see people that do it well and are able to articulate it and they've been in the industry and they're well respected and you know and and they're the guys and a lot of the people that I've noticed, the ones that are talking about it and that are agreement capable like they'll listen and they've done the work and they do the work themselves and they'll tell you like the things that they used to do were not good. You know what I mean? And you know a lot of this industry, you know, I mentioned my sons are fourth generation. You know, a lot of this industry is family. You know, you get into this because you have an uncle or your dad. You know, your kids are following in the footsteps. And so when you realize you're working with apprentices and these are somebody's kids, you know, and so um it's like how would you want to treat if your kid was on a job, how would you want another journeyman to treat your son, you know what I mean? That's an apprentice, you know, or your daughter that is in an office, you know what I mean? Working or that's out there, you know, working, you know, on a crewbased, you know, type of position. Like how would you want your own family to be treated? You know, that's a big one for me because I hear stories and I have my own stories of, you know, things that I've heard that my kids and my family have gone through and, you know, it's it's it can be rough, you know, and so it's like I think just realizing that we there is a family aspect to it and um you know, that we don't have to do this stuff alone, you know, and so faith has always been a really big part of why I've done this. I think um you know I think there is kind of mo like you mentioned there's a movement of you know this mental health and um I really do believe that it's something where you know people make a good living in this trade and it's a wonderful organization and like I said there's a lot of family and I see people that go and you know they go to the river together they vacation together you know I've had Thanksgiving meals with my brothers and sisters from IBW you know and so um when we start to see what we have and and we realize that there's a lot of goodness in it and just that's what you know we want to chase that you know we want to give people hope and um and know that if we keep showing up for each other that um and we keep putting that in that like um I think you know we'll there there will be fruit to that you know and and so that's kind of my heart behind it. So thanks for sharing that. your uh your union care solution model is train, mobilize, deploy. And so if somebody is listening to this episode and they're like, "Man, I definitely want to learn more. I want to bring this to my organization." Um what are the steps that somebody could take to start to bring some of these concepts uh to their organization?

So I think it starts with, you know, training. Um there is there are a lot of organizations out there now um you know like I had mentioned you know mental health first aid um vital cog the critical incident stress management so you know getting people trained into some of these things so that you have kind of a point person and um you know I specifically I work with the IBW because that's that's what I know. Um, but I think any company just getting the trainings out there and supporting the guys and and kind of being able to start having these conversations, you know, and getting and asking the guy, you know, the people that are interested in kind of sharing the message. I think from what I've seen, there's always like one or two people either on a crew or within an organization that maybe have gone through something whether they've gone through recovery or they've had, you know, personal, you know, things that that they've gone through that um and they want to be of service and they want to help other people and they feel comfortable talking about this stuff. And um you know it's finding those guys you know really just finding those people that are going to be the advocates you know for um that are out in the field you know because it's super important. It can't I mean there are a lot of really great safety people but you know you need people that are out there you know you need the ones that are trusted that the guys respect you know and from my experience you know who they are like if you ask the guys like who would you go I mean just pull a crew you know what I mean and say who you know what I mean who would you go to for this stuff you know um and so having those you know conversations I think that's a really great start andor incorporating. There's toolbox talks um that you can find on mental health, you know, and so like you had mentioned, there are so many other organizations that kind of are geared around this. There's a lot of people that, you know, talk about this topic and share their stories and, you know, kind of promote other organizations as well. And so just kind of educating yourself, too, right? And and and what does that look like and how you show up? And then um you know peer support's really important. It's something that we're going to that um I'm helping local 47 launch in January. And so kind of creating like a Zoom call where guys can call in and um you know have one that's maybe recovery based. And so if that's something that people are struggling with or they're out of town, they have a spot they can call in. Um and so I think care support is really huge. Um and that can look different across the board, you know. um care support too could just be like going to dinner or you know talking about those things but bringing up those conversations and then um you know for the critical incident stress management you know again getting you know people trained in those things and um being able to um you know have people be deployed during those times and so I think for what I've seen it really is just having starting to have these conversations you know and kind of building it um within in a structure that makes sense.

You know, Jenny, how can people find you? What are some of your uh your handles on social media? And what is your contact information for Union Care Solutions?

So, I have unicarolutions.org online and you can connect with me there. And I'm on Instagram at uniareesolutions on there. So, you can find me there. you can send me an email um jaylavin@uncaresolutions.org and um I could connect you and you know help send your way and I and it's it's interesting because a lot of the stuff that I've done has kind of happened organically which I like because I feel it becomes sustainable. So you know I would just say if you have a heart for service you know to reach out and um I could get you connected.

Thank you Jenny. And are there any final thoughts that you'd like to leave our audience with today?

Yeah, I I think for the most part, you know, this is such can be such a hard con like conversation and you know, we talk about this stuff and safety and there can be so many people that, you know, what is the root cause or who are we going to blame and it can be kind of I mean obviously it can be such a downer, right? Like it's really hard stuff that we're talking about. Um but I would just like to leave people with um you know the thought that they if this is on their heart and they have their own experiences or this is something that they feel called to lead or to be a part of um to just reach out and to do something right that it doesn't it can they can start small and that there's a lot of really great people doing a lot of really great things that are out there and you know um to be the brother or sister that you wish you had, you know, and show up on the crew the way that um that you wish you could be that you had there on there.

Jenny, thank you for sharing your time, your expertise, and your heart for the people who keep our world running. And to everyone listening, thanks for being a part of the work ready community. If you haven't subscribed or left a review, I'd be grateful if you did. It's it's one of the best ways to help us continue bring powerful purpose-driven conversations to the trades. And until next time, remember, you matter. You are worth investing in, and our communities are grateful for your service. Thank you.