Kevin Guillen | Wilderness Athlete

Dr. Kevin Rindal | Vimocity

Low energy, trouble concentrating, chronic fatigue. If you feel like something is holding you back from peak performance, you're probably right. And there's not a single athlete out there. There's not a single active person out there, whether you're just swinging a sledgehammer all day, or you're climbing mountains or running trails without also breaking down muscle.

Kevin Guillen has tested performance nutrition where there is zero margin for error, backcountry hunts, extreme altitudes, and more. Today he's talking with us about why working athletes require the same nutritional edge as elite athletes and the difference between what works to fuel your body and what doesn't.

When you're fatigued, you're struggling to feel like you're performing at the level you want. It starts further back than that day of work. This is the Work Ready podcast.

I wanna start very practically, and I think a lot of people listening will recognize, uh, this situation immediately. So someone puts in a full shift, eats throughout the day, does everything that they think they're supposed to, and still hits a wall at hour eight. What's happening in the body when effort and fuel are not translating into sustained energy?

What's happening in the body is, is generally a translation of the way the decisions you've made. You know, going back to the night before and, and I think a lot of listeners are gonna probably hear me say this stuff and it's gonna sound like that old just rubric curriculum stuff where it's like, yeah, sleep, drink, water, you know, put good food in your body.

But the reality is those core principles are just really fundamental in pillars in how. You know, you translate what goes in your body to usable, clean, productive energy throughout your day. And I think everyone's probably pretty familiar with the types of foods that we're surrounded by in society today.

Uh, whether it's at Starbucks, the gas station, what have you, there's plenty of carbs, there's plenty of sugar everywhere, you know, and that's the trap that's kind of the. The, the thing that I prioritize the most and that I see making the biggest difference in people's, uh, work life and their health, just generally, their health is not getting on that, um, that insulin rollercoaster, that sugar rollercoaster first thing in the morning because it's tough to get off of it once you're on it.

You know, once you're, uh, putting a lot of sugar into your system or those fast absorbing carbs first thing in the morning. It's really, really tough to kind of rebalance and, and start regulating a lot of those levels, those, those blood sugar levels that are indicating or, or dictating a lot of your energy output, not just physically, but, but mentally as well.

So, um, you know, I think a lot of people tend to get really narrowly focused, and I, and I, and I do this as well, sometimes I'm not speaking from like a, you know, oh, I know it all. I, this is like a everyday thing that I've gotta think about and, you know, fail at and get better at, but. You think about, God, I'm just, I feel a crap.

What did I just eat? So much of it starts way further back than that. How did you sleep the night before? What did you eat for dinner the night before? What kind of conversations did you have with your family the night before? How much stress were you going to bed with? You know, what kind of mental space were you in, um, the night before?

You know, what's the mental load on your body, uh, and toll on your body that you're, that you're carrying around all the time? Um, and a lot of the times that's, that's the. The thing that really drives your decision making and what kind of food you're putting in your body, how much energy or intention you put behind how you're fueling yourself.

It, it starts further back than just, just the food decisions, like just what you're putting in your mouth, uh, that day of work. It, it tends to happen before that. One of the other guests that we have had on the work on your podcast is, uh, coach p Mark Paulson, one of the, uh, co-founders of Wilderness Athlete.

But can you share for those who haven't listened to that episode, a little bit more about Wilderness Athlete in the background? The, the genesis of Wilderness Athlete, um, was, was really just the translation of. Mark Paulson, you know, he was a avid athlete his whole life. He spent his career in, uh, strength and conditioning, uh, coaching athletes at a very high level, collegiate Olympic professional.

He played pro football for a while himself. Um, so that was the world he lived in. He was also a pretty passionate hunter and. Those two things I think were, there was kind of a gap there at the time, at least in the nutrition industry, all the, all the higher level next level performance, nutrition resources were for people that were playing between the lines, playing four quarters, two halves, that kind of thing.

Um, and in this situation when I'm in, you know, the back country when I'm 10 miles in or putting. Putting my body through some elements at altitude heat, there's no, there's no wis, right? Like there's no halftime. And that's where it started. You know, he brought together a lot of the relationships he had and the formulation side of things, the sports nutrition side of things, human physiology, uh, research that was going on to bring about, like the best available science, the most current science that was out there.

But that's how it started, and that's what we're still doing today. And explain a little bit more about that unique blend that, uh, coach p and your formulators put in place that really maximizes not only the hydration, uh, capabilities of the product, but also just the performance aspect. Sure. Um, well, so at the time when Hydrate and Recover was, uh, formulated.

The, the, the really hydration science hadn't changed in many, many years. Um, Gatorade, Powerade were the, the big, you know, names in that space. And that was what everybody kind of viewed and, and leaned on as the end all be all of electrolytes, you know. But what you were getting was. Far too much sugar than the body needs.

Um, and actually it, it's detrimental in terms of how the body's able to actually process all that sugar and what it does with it. Um, and then really a poor electrolyte, uh, complex, you know, that. Gatorade mostly just gives you a lot of sodium, which is a key electrolyte, right? Like it's, it's an important electrolyte.

Um, but it's not the only one. We also saw that there was a much larger opportunity there to include a whole host of other ingredients that can elevate your health and your performance in a number of other ways, not just addressing electrolyte needs and maybe, you know, uh, blood. Blood sugar levels and glycogen, you know, restoration.

So, you know, we add a thousand milligrams of vitamin C. Vitamin C has a whole host of different benefits from immune system function to helping draw fluid into your tissues. So on a physical level, um, we use adaptogenic herbs. Um, adaptogenic herbs are, they're the kind of tough to describe, but essentially what they do is they really help your body mitigate a lot of stress and environmental stress, and adapt to stressful environments, stressful scenarios.

And in our world, and for like a, a working, uh, athlete or even a wilderness athlete, a lot of times there's a lot of stress involved in being in hot climates. Um, or let's say high altitude. You know, if you're on a hunt and you're six, seven, 8,000, 10,000 feet of elevation and your body's not totally used to that, it's under a lot of stress.

We use semio trace minerals, which is great for a lot of different things from just micro level body functions. Um. So we basically didn't wanna stop at gist, let's give you some electrolytes, let's give you the right amount of sugar, um, and send you on your way. You know, we, we took the opportunity to really give you a very well-rounded, very healthy formula.

And the thing I personally love about, hydrate and recover, I, I'm a trail runner and so I'm running at higher elevations for hours, sometimes on end. And. I think the branch chain amino acids, like that's something that's not very common in, uh, electrolyte drinks. Can you maybe explain that formulation as part of the hydrate and recovery?

'cause to me that feels like it's kind of the big differentiator. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I'll give you a little bit of history on this and just from a formulation standpoint, we didn't, we didn't always add branch chain amino acids. Um, the recovery side of our name, uh, we used to use glucosamine, uh, glucosamine.

Largely supplementally, like when, when you're, when you're adding glucosamine comes from shellfish. And we knew we could improve the formula by replacing glucosamine with branched chain amino acids. So we swap those two ingredients and it did improve the, the formula quite a bit. Um, you know, branched chain amino acids are far more healthy and helpful to the body in a.

In a short window of time to, in inspir, inspire some actual muscle repair and tissue repair, and there's not a single athlete out there, there's not a single active person out there, whether you're just, you know, swinging a sledgehammer all day, or you're climbing mountains or running trails that is draining your fluids and your electrolytes without also.

Breaking down muscle and also stressing muscle. So, you know, part of the, the key to any, uh, activity is your ability to recover. You know, you're only as good as your, you know, you can recover. So by giving yourself some branching amino acids, those are critical components to actually the building blocks of the proteins and protein synthesis, synthesis necessary to rebuild that, that tissue and that muscle that's damaged over, uh, whatever workout, you know, workday, you're, you're facing.

One of the things I've been doing lately is I'll add 10 grams of, uh, creatine to my hydrate and recovery when I go out for a long run. Uh, definitely some research that shows that, uh, creatine can help from just providing the muscles with extra energy helps with recovery. But can you maybe talk a little bit more about creatine?

That's another product that, that you, uh, formulate and Yeah. Maybe the benefits of that and the applications for backcountry and working athletes. Yeah, yeah. We we're, we're big believers in creatine. We, we've actually, um, been using creatine in a, in a shake of ours for many years. Um, but we've actually introduced it into another couple products of ours.

We actually recently came out with a standalone creatine, uh, with the addition of, uh, HMB, which stands for Hydroxyethyl butyrate. So it's a combination of the two. The, the science and like, there's a lot of more emerging research coming out into creatine. As, as a lot of your listeners and yourself probably know, like creatine's, just like the craze right now, you know, everyone's really, really interested in it.

Whereas, uh, before. It used to be very widely appreciated by bodybuilders, uh, competitive athletes for its anabolic properties, for its performance enhancing properties, which it certainly, uh, does. Um, so cine at a cellular level is, is very, very helpful for the body's production of a TP, which really is your.

Muscles, usable form of energy. Um, we, we get a, I mean, we get creatine from a lot of natural resources. We get a lot from red meat, uh, some, some shellfish. Um, but it tends to be that our just dietary consumption of it isn't, isn't enough. Um, one of the, the biggest. Benefits of creatine as, as we see it, is the ability to hydrate your cells.

And I think the, kind of the, the double-edged sword and what a lot of people why creatine used to get such a bad rap is 'cause people would think, you know, oh, I'm just gonna drink creatine. It puts on some muscle and some bulk, but it's just water weight. You know, it's, I've heard that a ton. I think even at one time I was guilty of thinking that myself is like, like it was somehow wasn't real or genuine muscle because it was just water weight.

Um, while it is true. With you. You know, when you're, when you're consuming creatine, you tend to, you'll put on a little bit of weight. Your body tends to, uh, hang on to more, more water. Um, what's also true is that a hydrated cell is a much better functioning cell. Um, you know, there's cells all over your body that have a whole host of different roles and responsibilities, uh, from contracting muscle, you know, from just the function of muscle.

Um. Repairing muscle. There's a lot of different functions, and when your cells are hydrated and they have the type of net nutrients necessary to carry out their role, they're, they're gonna do so a lot better. Um, that's part of the reason why you see with, you know, a fairly short period of time of consuming creatine, you see strength levels go up, you see recovery time reduced.

Um, you see muscle definition increase, your, your fat to muscle ratio is improved. Um, so we're big believers in it because it. There's, there's really not a whole lot of drawbacks. There's a small section of people out there. It's a small, that will have some gi uh, response to a negative GI response to it, and that's, that's up to everybody to kind of determine on their own what the right level is.

Uh, there's a lot of research that suggests that the only. You only really need to have consume about three to three and a half grams of, of creatine a day to get a benefit from it. Um, now there's also some research showing that there's a lot of cognitive benefits when you're consuming seven to 10 grams a day.

Um, the muscular skeletal system. Is gonna consume and can store and can process and utilize about five grams a day. But that's not including your, just, just the cognitive side of your body as well. So there's a lot of people that are really interested in it from a memory standpoint, a mental energy standpoint, a focus, and just a cognitive performance side of it.

Um, and the research is showing that in order to kind of tap into some of those benefits, you probably need to be consuming a little bit more because. In order further to be enough leftover for your brain to use it as fuel, you need to be probably north of five grams. Um, these are kind of broad stroke numbers.

These are just sort of the numbers that I think a lot of the research is showing. But everybody, you know, what we always encourage people to do is to really kind of pay attention to their own response, their own needs. Um, everyone's a bit different and so it's, it's. It's sometimes dangerous to just take a total prescriptive approach and say like, oh, well this is what, you know, generally that's what works for most people, but you know, you may be a little different.

So, you know, start small, start gonna drop three, three and a half grams. If you tolerate that, just fine. Get up to five grams if you're good there. Just, you know, see where you land. Yeah. It's funny you say that. There's a creatine craze right now, which I would agree everybody's talking about it, but I mean, this has been something that's been around for 40 plus years.

Yeah. Uh, it's actually the most well researched supplement. Out there, there are over 10,000 peer reviewed articles just on creatine's efficacy and mm-hmm. Uh, if you haven't listened to the episode with Dr. Rick Kreider, which um, was a couple episodes before this, he goes into great, um, detail on the research benefits and like you said, the cognitive impact and.

One of the, the recent studies that I think is so, um, intriguing is the fact that if you do a large dose, which is like 30 grams, which that's a lot of creatine. Yeah. But if you're sleep deprived, you can actually offset the impact of sleep deprivation by that loading dose. And Yeah. You know, it's not something that you would want to do long term to, uh.

To try to outrun sleep deprivation. I mean, the body ultimately is gonna keep score there, but it, it definitely is a great tool that can be used to, to maintain that cognitive function in those type of situations. And again, it's just giving the brain extra energy to be able to perform. And I think the takeaway here is, uh, you know, your alignment, your work in a storm, you're a construction worker, that you're traveling, you're going through multiple time zones.

Uh. Taking creatine with you. It's, it's so portable. I mean, you just throw it into a Ziploc bag you can get Yeah. Single packets. It's super portable, but it's, it's a great thing. Yeah. I, I literally don't travel anywhere without, um, a little bit of creatine as part of my supplementation routine. With animosity, utility leaders are cutting injuries by up to 50%, keeping crews safer, empowering, stronger operational readiness teams, stay engaged, your safety impact skills across every work group.

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So Kevin, uh, my first exposure to wilderness athlete was actually at, uh, the International Line Rodeo. Mm-hmm. Uh, there was a booth there, working athlete, which sister company to, to wilderness athlete. Can you explain a little bit more about how you started working with, uh, frontline workers and really serving that population?

Yeah. Actually it started with, uh, lineman. Um, so one of our good friends that is a friend of one of our other business partners. Um, he was a, basically a safety manager for a local utility company here in Phoenix, uh, SRP, and had for many, many years been buying, uh, different hydration electrolyte replacements for their, their, their whole division, the, this whole, you know, department in, in Phoenix, we could see 120 degrees, sometimes a little bit.

More than that in the summer. Um, and in the line of work that these guys are in, they don't get an off day just because it's hot. You know, you get a big section of the power grid that goes out, uh, something that needs their work, they've gotta go do it. So safety is just a huge, huge, um. Thing in, in, in their life.

And for many years they were, you know, always hovering around and I'm, I'm probably gonna butcher these numbers, but I know it was a considerable number of heat related, like recordable incidents every year, guys going down in the field, you know, guys having heat stroke. Heat related illnesses to some degree.

Um, so their electrolyte replacements, while they were probably better than nothing, they, they weren't, uh, mitigating the problem enough. Um, now a, a good friend of ours, also an avid hunter, al also a big part of our, you know, hunting community, and he had been using hydrant recover for, for years in the field on hunts.

And I don't know what made the light bulb click in his head, um, but said, Hey, like I, maybe this is something we should try for our workforce. And I think we started with a, a pilot, a test run with a few crews, some guys that were in particularly sensitive positions of heat during the summer. And the, the number of heat related incidents and recordable incidents, they had just plumbed it immediately and went to zero.

And it's still, as far as I know, has still been zero since they've been using Hydrate and Recover. Um, so for us that was. It, it, it was, I guess, sort of serendipity and the way it fell on our laps. And once we got into that world, we realized, man, there's just, there's a, there's a lot to be gained here that can serve these people better, that can take care of these linemen better.

That I think can do a lot better at mitigating some heat stress, um, better for them overall from a sugar standpoint. You know, we only use five grams of sugar and it's an intentional amount of sugar. Like it has a purpose beyond just making it. Tastes good and sweet. Uh, it, it is actually much more helpful in making those electrolytes reach your blood system and, and do the certain nerves signaling that electrolytes are supposed to do, um, but not too much.

You know, when you're up 20 plus grams of sugar per serving, uh, it really is a, becomes a more of an inflammatory response and kind of blunts your system's, uh, adaptation to heat and adaptation to stress. So. This is much different than guys that are going hunting for a week. Um, this is life or death. This is their job.

This is the way they put food on the table. This is the way that they put, uh, keep our whole grid and our whole system in, in the world we live in, working in, um, it, so in a lot of ways it hit us as a much heavier, a much more important part of our job than just serving the hobbyists or the guys that make a, you know, their lifestyles hunting, but their job.

And the, the way that they feed their family and, and keep our world running. Kevin, let's talk practically, uh, about strategy when it comes to fueling. And so when I say fueling it's hydration and nutrition, what are some of the most common mistakes you see people make or maybe you've made personally in the back country or, or out in the, you know, frontline workers?

Uh, I, a lot not enough protein. Um. Generally at all phases of your diet at, you know, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Uh, as a whole, in our country, we don't consume enough protein. You know, you can find a bagel, a muffin, a donut, or even just a super, super sugary latte, chocolatey drink at every, you know, coffee shop you go to.

And that has almost become like a staple in our American food system, in our, in our breakfast, you know, routine. Um. But it's very, very dangerous to get into that routine. And I think if you're focused more highly on, on protein, you're gonna do yourself a lot of good from a lot of standpoints. So you're gonna feel a much higher degree of satiety.

You're just gonna feel full longer, you know, you get a lot more, um, energy out of, out of protein, um, than you do. It's, it's a lot more. Uh, it, it digests a lot slow, you know, things like carbs, sugary things, they're, they're generally fast, fast digesting. They're, they're fast sources, fast jolts of energy. Um, and the steep decline you get from that is what kind of gets you on that rollercoaster of, you know, overeating.

You get a lot more cravings. Your blood sugar generally crashes. Your mental sharpness generally starts to slip. Um. So for me, one of my biggest focuses is my first meal of the day has gotta be pretty rich in protein, whether that's a whole heaping scoop of protein and a and a shake that I'm gonna drink.

Or if I've got time to make three, four eggs, I just wanna make sure I'm starting my day off with a good dose of protein. Um, and, and I try to make sure proteins a good represent, like represented well in every meal I have. Um. Another mistake I, I think I see a lot of people making is, is overeating in our culture, especially lunch, you know, we have usually pretty high demanding mornings.

A lot of us that are working office jobs or whatever, even if you're working in the field, morning is when you just, you get your day started, you get a lot of work done. You, you, you push it. You're getting a lot of your, your day going. Yeah, lunchtime comes around and because a lot of us have just eaten a lot of sugar or we've drank a ton of caffeine early in the morning, um, we're starting to kind of feel the bad side of that.

And so, you know, now we've got a break. Um, and everywhere we go for lunch, it's easily heaping portions of something. Um, and usually it's an overconsumption of a lot of different calories and a lot of it tends to be, again, carb rich, um, and not really a good presence of fiber, uh, fat protein in the rest of that meal.

And, you know, so you, you put a whole lot of food in your system at lunch, and then, gosh, the second half of your day is. And I've been there a lot too. When I have a big lunch, you just feel like taking a nap. I heard a saying from a guy a long time ago that it's always kind of stuck with me. He tries to see everything he eats.

How am I gonna turn that into energy? Um, now don't get me wrong, like I, I love eating sugary sweetss. That's probably my biggest Achilles. He like, like, like I love eating sugary snacks, you know, crappy food sometimes. Um. But if you try to think, especially during the week when your, your output is important.

If you try to think about like, how am I gonna turn it into energy? How is that gonna help me with my job today? How is that gonna help me feel good? Um, it's, it's really actually a, a good way to rule out a lot of the stuff that you're presented with. What's your go-to protein snack when you're in the back country?

Or let's say you're on a road trip and you know you're just gonna have access to gas station food. To be honest, uh, shakes, uh, and, and especially in the back country. So like, and I'll, I'll talk about that first. When I'm like on a, on a hunt, um, a lot of times, you know, jerky or, or steak stuff that's like easily packable stuff that doesn't take, you know, much to make.

Um, I love shakes because if you get a good meal replacement shake, like we make a great meal replacement shake that's fairly low in sugar, high in protein, but it's well rounded with good carbs and fats. Like, I don't wanna make it sound like carbs are completely enemy. They're highly, highly necessary to our function for sure.

Um. But in moderation and from complex sources is the right, uh, right way to consume them. So a meal replacement shake is a great way to conveniently get in a good amount of calories and healthy calories. Jerky is another really good one just from a protein standpoint. Um, you know, some jerky has a lot of sugar and salt in it too, but you know, that's not the end of the world as long as you're eating things in moderation.

But, um, macadamia nuts are great. They're generally pretty high in fat, good in protein. Also, they're pretty low in omega nines compared to things like almonds or peanuts. So, um, you know, say peanuts for example, they're really high in omega nines. Um, and when I'm left unchecked, they, they tend to be pretty inflammatory.

So, uh, I feel a little bit less. Regulated by just eating handful after handful of macadamia nuts, and I love them. Um, I think the focus, uh, especially when you're in situations like on the road or on a short day at work, or, or, um, you know, in the back country is just being intentional and thoughtful and trying to make the best decision you can.

Sometimes there's just not the best options, um, but as long as you're thinking about it and prioritizing it, you're probably gonna make a better decision than grabbing a coke and. You know, eating a Snickers bar and hydration is so critical to performance. I mean, we can go a long time without food, but like three days without water and you're not gonna make it.

Yeah. Um, and oftentimes when we're working hard, when we're in the back country, uh, you know, that thirst reflux may not. Be like that strong. And when it kicks in, we're already a little bit behind the eight ball. So what is your strategy from a hydration perspective, uh, when you know it's gonna be a 10, 12 hour day, um, of physical activity?

I, I try to keep, I try to keep it simple. I don't have like rules in my life where it's, it's like, oh, I gotta drink this much water. I, one, one, I guess kind of. Not even a rule, but just sort of a habit I've been in is the first thing when I wake up, before I even have coffee, I try to drink eight to 12 ounces of water.

I just chug a glass of water, just get water in my system right away. So I'm beginning immediately to dig myself out of that dehydrated state that happens when you're sleeping. Um, for me, getting water in, just even just simple water like. Often is, is very key. Uh, but also making sure I'm mixing in, uh, a good level of electrolytes, like with hydrate or recover, uh, throughout the day is critical too.

And that, and that, and that's a problem that a lot of people have is, is they think just simple water is enough. Obviously water's king. Of course, but when you're not getting the right, uh, electrolytes in that water, the sodium, potassium, magnesium in there, uh, you can get hyponatremic. You know, you, you lose a lot of the electrolytes in your blood and it becomes almost just over diluted where you're lacking the.

The electrolytes in your system to carry out the signaling, uh, nerve signaling. That's, that's very critical to keep just some very basic functional operations happening in your body cognitively, uh, from a muscle standpoint. That's, you know, that, that's where that comes. And people, oh, I've been drinking a lot of water.

When was the last time you had like an electrolyte replacement? You know, what, how much sodium have you? Had in your system tho those are key as well. So, um, water often and electrolytes, uh, mixed in there as well is, is just kind of how I, how I operate. One of the number one beverages that's, uh, sold across, uh, the us.

Our energy drinks, I guess it's more of a class of, uh, class of, uh, beverages, but, you know, so high in all these different stimulants and then you have sugar on top of it and it can be definitely an addiction. Uh, it. Wilderness athlete came out with a product to try to, you know, give people an alternative to maintain a more balanced level of energy.

Uh mm-hmm. Can you talk a little bit about, uh, just your thoughts regarding the continued use of, uh, high energy, high sugar beverages versus maybe some alternatives? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, so canned energy drinks, let's just call 'em the cult energy drinks because that's really what they are. The things you find at gas stations, convenience stores, um, things that are in Cannes already ready to go in, in general, and I'm, again, I'm painting this with broad strokes.

Um, I know I might offend some people here who are in the cult and they drink certain ones avidly and they're big fans of, you know, whatever energy drink that is. But a lot of times there's, there's far too much caffeine in it. Um. Upwards of two 50 to 300 milligrams of caffeine is even 200. It's just not necessary.

And if it is, then the problem really starts with how much caffeine your body's pretty used to getting on a pretty irregular level. Your adrenal glands are pretty fatigued. They're pretty shot. And in order to get the kind of stimulus you need out of, you want, uh, you need that much to keep you going. And, um.

So that, that kind of, it's a whole nother subject, but, um, you mentioned sugar as well. So almost all of these canon earn your drinks covered. They have tons of sugar in 'em. Um, and they have a lot of preservatives. Typically, you know, they're. They're, they have to be shelf stable and it can for months to years, you know, while they go on trucks to, and, and sit on a shelf, you know, what have you.

Uh, every one of our products that we make is in a powder and it's intentional. We believe, you know, we have always a little phrase that the power is in the powder. The reason why we make things in powder form is because it is gonna keep those ingredients as bioavailable and the integrity of them as as high as they can be until you are ready to put that into water and consume it pretty immediately.

Um, when you mix something in solution. That ingredient, that vitamin, that, that amino acid, that caffeine molecule, all those molecules began to degrade, uh, instantly and over time. Um, so by the time you ingest it, the, the ease in which that your body's able to digest those ingredients just is not nearly as, there's a lot more work needed and just a lot less available there to, to, to, to nutrition, to, to derive that of it for your body.

So our energy and focus formula. It is really just a healthy alternative to energy drinks. We use 125 milligrams of caffeine, which is the equivalent of like a small cup of coffee. Um, it comes from green coffee bean, is where we get that caffeine. So it's naturally sourced as opposed to, you know, a lot of synthetic sources, which, you know, the difference really being that a lot of times synthetic sourced caffeine tends to get metabolized, uh, just differently faster.

Uh, it tends to have a whole, just a different. Experience that your body's gonna have versus something that's coming, uh, from a natural source. Um, we use some other energy. Co-factors in our formula as well, which truly for me is the key. I think. So, um, we're not just gonna give people a dose of caffeine, um, and say good luck.

Uh, we're also giving you a lot of ingredients that really help your body produce those energies, uh, those, you know, fuel those energy producing mechanisms in your body. As well. So like vitamin B six, B12, um, we use adaptogenic herbs as well and some other antioxidants. Uh, antioxidants are super critical for cellular health when you're a pretty active person.

So, um, they are, it's a very healthy energy drink and it's, it's not just it stimulus. Um, you know, we we're, I love caffeine. I'm a big believer in caffeine, and caffeine can be good in moderation. It's a very powerful and critical, uh, neuro neuroactive, uh, agent. Um, but. Over consumption, like with anything else, can lead you down a pretty slippery slope.

So, uh, that's why we stick in that 125 milligram range and, you know, you can go to any store today and find something that's gonna give you 300 milligrams of caffeine. Uh, that and probably a good dose of sugar with it. Um, but that'll leave you pretty feeling pretty fried at the end of your day and, and sort of depleted, you know, as well, gets you on that rollercoaster of needing that amount of, of caffeine to keep you.

To keep you operational. Kevin, let's move into some myth busting. Uh, these are some things that I've heard over and over again from people and yeah, I think it's good to just think through these statements and really unpack, you know, what, what people are trying to say here. So, myth number one is calories or calories.

As long as I'm eating enough, I'm fueled. What's, what's wrong with that statement? Oh, uh, absolutely not true. So, uh, calories are not calories. You can have a 500 calorie, um, candy bar versus 500 calories. That comes from something like steak, potatoes, and veggies. There, there are completely different properties and digestive properties and energy results from different calories.

Just because you get a unit of energy, like that's what calories are, a unit of energy, doesn't mean that it is gonna be the same lasting, performing functional. Uh, unit of energy. So, uh, ca like where you're getting those calories is critical. That's number two. If I'm not hungry, I don't need to eat. And so what's actually happening when someone suppresses hunger during long shifts?

And what does it cost them long term? Well, what generally is happening? A lot of times when your body is getting that signal of like, I'm not really hungry. It tend tends to be that your cortisol levels are pretty high. Um, you have a lot of, you know, your, your sympathetic nervous system is, is, is pretty taxed.

You've got a lot of decision making. You've got a lot of environmental stressors. You've got a lot of things on your plate. Right now, you're operating heavy equipment. Um, so your adrenaline's pretty high. Your, your cortisol levels are high. Um, and that tends to, to suppress your. Your appetite because your, your body is essentially saying it's not time to eat, it's time to focus, it's time to get stuff done.

It's not time to replenish or nourish. We gotta put all our energy into making sure we're focused and prioritizing the task at hand. Um, the, the, the downside to that though of, of tolerating that and not eating and not nourishing the body, uh, is before it's, before it's too late, you're gonna. You're gonna, you're gonna be in a hole, you're gonna be in a calorie deficit, you're gonna be fatigued, mentally, physically, uh, and somewhere down the road you're gonna overeat.

You know, so you're gonna have those latenight cravings that aren't gonna be good for you. Um, you're gonna have, and, and the more costly even worse, yet, you're gonna have more, you're more pro mistakes. You, you, your, your reaction time slows. It just gets you. Just deviated enough to where you are trying to play catch up.

And along that path, you could make some pretty costly mistakes. So if you're eating or drinking only based on the result of like, oh, I'm hungry. Um, when you know you're having a super active day, the chances are you're, you're kind of playing catch up and you're gonna be a little behind the ball. I appreciate you saying that too, because I think that proper hydration, nutrition is a safety.

Feature and it's something we need to be talking about to, to keep people, keep people's heads in the games, keep them cognitively sharp so that they can perform at that highest level. And like you said, decreased, uh, you know, coordination, decreased, uh, muscle output and strength output when we're, when we're under nurse.

So thank you. Yeah. Okay. Myth, myth number three. Energy drinks solve fatigue. A lot of times these energy drinks that we were just talking about. In the long run end up costing you and pulling more energy from you than they are giving to you. Um, the metabolism mechanisms and the digestive mechanisms and the processing of some of these synthetic ingredients, preservative ingredients, and just weird ingredients, frankly, a lot of these energy drinks are using, um, require a lot of energy to process, to, to carry around.

Um. So the, I think kind of the misconception is that, gosh, I'm sluggish, I'm down, I'm tired. Uh, I just need, I just need caffeine. I need caffeine and sugar. Well, that's gonna maybe get you there in the short term, which frankly, sometimes is necessary. If you, if you gotta just get it done, you gotta get it done.

I'm not, I'm not saying, uh. You know, you always have those, those options. Um, but it's gonna cost you something down the road for sure. Uh, it, it'll, it'll generally, that affects your sleep pretty harshly. Generally, that affects the, the way you eat pretty well. It, it'll affects your, your stress levels. Um, and it affects just the overall health and wellbeing of your body and your mind in, in the long run.

What are some early signs that if I'm working on a crew or I'm out in the back country with a partner. Some early signs that, um, they're struggling maybe from a fatigue standpoint or a hydration standpoint, a nutrition standpoint, or maybe it's it's myself. What are, what are some of those early signs that I should be aware of when you're feeling mentally foggy?

When you shouldn't? You know, when, when you, when you feel, when you feel like caffeine's. The only answer to, to get you up and feel motivated, like when you feel like a lack of motivation, um, when you feel like answer to. Motivation and action is, is, is just a stimulant. Um, I, I think the, the ideal, like the goal is good, solid sleep, good restorative, productive sleep.

It doesn't mean you're gonna have to get nine hours every night, but you feel like you got good quality sleep you had, if you had good nutrition in your system, uh, that night before and that morning. Uh, you know, those are the best ways to set yourself up for success. But I think the telltale sign is people that are on kind of a.

A constant stream of caffeine and sugar in order to feel like they've gotta keep themselves in it, uh, mentally as well. Um, not just physically, but mentally. And that, and that. And that's kind of the another indicator too, is, you know, our bodies tend to be a lot stronger than our minds. Our minds will.

Give up on us a lot earlier than, than our bodies will in my experience. Um, so a lot of times when we are on this cycle of like, God, I just, I need a little more caffeine, or I'm gonna have a sugary snack just to get my, just get a little sugar kick. A lot of it's a cognitive thing and it's a mental thing where you're not, you don't have the, the right.

Base in your system, whether that's from a sleep or nutritional or hydration standpoint to really support the right fuel in your mind. Uh, but your body is, is your body's capable of a heck of a lot. So I think that's the disconnect that a lot of people sometimes have is think that like the nutrition, the hydration and stuff is just for their body to make sure my body's, uh, well taken care of.

Uh, but it, it also has a big, big role to do with. Cognitively and, and emotionally and mentally, how present, how motivated, how ready for action you are. Um. So I think paying attention to what people say, their attitude, their mood, um, that's a big part of it. If they don't feel like they, they don't seem like they're terribly like motivated to get this thing done, or they don't have a great attitude about it, if they're complaining about it.

If they're yawning a lot, you know, cognitively, if they just seems sort of out of the game, um, it's an indicator that maybe they're not really, they don't have the right approach. You know, somewhere there's a broken link in that chain. What's, what's one habit that people listening today can start to implement that would have the biggest impact?

Ooh. Having a big old glass of water before you have coffee. And I say that because that's what I'm focused on currently in my life, is I'm a big coffee drinker and I love coffee. I love the ritual of coffee, but I am emphasizing more lately, uh. Not immediately grabbing coffee and just starting with hy like a a, either a, a full glass of water or drinking a hydrant.

Recover along with some water afterwards. Um, before I have coffee. Um, as I said before, you know, the, the, the, the fluid needs are pretty high when you're a working person, especially if you're in a hot environment. It's a good way to get the brain spinning. It gets your metabolism fired up on something that it knows what to do with.

Um, and. Generally the, a lot of the recommendation is that you're gonna get a lot more outta that first cup of coffee if you wait 30 to 60 minutes to have that first cup of coffee versus, you know, that immediate, I'm gonna wake up and. Throw that Keurig pot in there and have that first cup of coffee within the first like three, four minutes, which I've done a lot in my life too.

And sometimes it's just mentally you're like, I need that. It's my ritual. But that one cup of coffee would hit you way better, and you'd feel way better from it if you waited a little bit and if you have water, first thing. So that would be, and it's an easy thing to get into. Especially if you go to bed with a glass of water in your nightstand like I do, just wake up, let a bed chug that whole freaking thing and start there.

Kevin, if you were to recommend one wilderness athlete product that every field worker, uh, utilize, what would it be? Hydro recover hands down. Um, it is the, the lifeblood of an active person for sure. Electrolytes are, uh, you know, a mystery. They're, they're incredibly, incredibly critical to how your body and your mind function and stay safe on a daily basis.

But what we have in hydro recover goes a lot further than that. Um, you know, a thousand milligrams of vitamin C is gonna really help your immune system and not just help your immune system, but it. It really helps with drawing fluid into your, your soft tissues as well, which just helps in general with how your body's gonna function on a daily basis.

Um, branched in amino acids are super critical for restoring muscle function and, and muscle protein synthesis. Uh, after long strenuous days, uh, we've got a whole host of different ionic trace minerals, which is really good for you as well. So, uh, in a sense it's actually more effective and more loaded than a lot of.

Multivitamins are out there. So it truly, that's if any one product was to stick with people, especially in the workforce hydrant recover would, would be the simple answer to that one. And for the workforce athletes listening, and maybe they're just finishing a shift or driving home or driving to the next job, if they remember three things from this conversation about fueling and sustained performance, what would those be?

Um, I, you know, I think the, the name of the game is. Try not to let the perfect ruin the good. And I think a lot of people make that mistake a lot. I do too. I just try to make better decisions with the available options you have at every chance you get. Uh, if you're going to a Burger King, you know, if that's the only option you can possibly have, order without the bun, you know, skip the bread and the carbs, that's not gonna do anything for you necessarily.

Um. So it's always just trying to make today a little bit better than yesterday. Those decisions a little bit better today than yesterday. And in general, just be intentional with what you're putting in your, in your system, because it directly correlates to the way you feel, not just physically, but mentally, and how you carry through the rest of your day, not just your workday, but how you.

Go home to your wife and kids, what kind of attitude, what kind of mood, what kind of energy you go home with, um, which is, you know, at the core of it, you know, obviously we want to put in a good, healthy, safe day at work, but we wanna show up at home the the best people we can be as well. So that all comes down to food too.

I know that's a long one. The second one I would say is. Hydrate, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate, uh, hydrate often hydrate well, um, uh, water's king, but make sure you're getting good electrolytes in the mix there too. That is, uh, a pretty, pretty, uh, important step and staying adequately hydrated is, is keeping electrolytes in your system.

So your brain, your body, your muscles, have the right signaling, co-factors there to make sure they're carrying out their function. Um, it's gonna help. Your decision making, your reaction time's gonna help everything. You're just gonna feel like a better human being at the end of the day. Number three, uh, I, I, I'd say don't look at.

Things from five feet off the ground, try to really take a step back. When I feel like crap at work, I tend to think, what did I just do? What did I just eat? Uh, a lot of times it starts the night before. Um, so when you know you have a really big day to the next day at work, uh, that kind of starts the night before.

And that doesn't mean like, oh, the job starts now, but focus on getting a good thanks, rest, eat a good meal. Maybe don't have. Four beers and have maybe one beer or don't drink at all. You know, just make sure you go to bed. Well hydrated, well nourished. Set yourself up for a good night sleep that carries into who shows up for work the next day, um, and will much greater impact that than the decisions you make that day.

Uh, it tends to be that the decisions you make the night before or the day prior are really what really drives how you feel the next day. Well, Kevin, this has been an a awesome conversation. Any final thoughts that you'd like to leave our guests with? Uh, you know, really, I guess just the main one is that like, like wilderness athlete, working athlete, you know, we're, we're one and the same.

And like I kind of hit on earlier that that wilderness athlete is the, is is the fun side. You know, we're the, the nutrition product for the guy that gets to go hunting on the weekend or spends a week in the mountains with his family. Um, working, working athlete is, is the thing that pays the bills for our whole world.

You know, it's, it's what pays your bills. It's, it's the job. And so we know that the stakes are much higher for people. In the field. Um, and we take that very, very seriously. Our products are incredible on, on both sides of that, you know, so they are the same products frankly, but we, um, we want to be, you know, cognizant of that.

So if there's ever anything that somebody sees on Willingness Athlete that they think, Hey, this might be great at work, um, you know, let us know. We'd love to help people out. Um. But we, we just respect the hell of a lot of what, what the men and women are doing in the field. And, uh, it, it, it's highly, highly important.

And so we, we take great responsibility in making sure that the products we make are of the highest quality that we can possibly deliver to those people. So they feel the very best that they can both at work and, you know, on the weekends when they're playing in the mountain. Most people treat nutrition as something separate from work, something that you deal with before or after the shift.

But for the people doing physically and mentally demanding work, nutrition is part of the job. It drives your energy, your focus, your ability to make good decisions, and your capacity to recover and come back ready. We invest in our equipment, we maintain our tools, we show up with our gear dialed in. The body that operates all of that deserves the same standard.

Kevin, what you've shown us through your work in the Backcountry and with Wilderness Athlete is that performance is not just about effort, it's about how well you fuel the system behind it. And that principle applies just as much on the job as it does at 10,000 feet with the heavy backpack on. So thanks so much for bringing that here, Kevin.

How can people learn more about you and Wilderness Athlete?

Well, I would say the best way to warn, learn about anything we have going on at Wilderness Athlete. Subscribe to our newsletter. So you can go to wildernessathlete.com. We've got a great newsletter that goes out. We don't send you spammy stuff.

It's either really just helpful insights into the good, healthy lifestyle or, you know, maybe a sale here and there. We've got a great Instagram. It's @WildernessAthlete. Mine personally is @WildAthlete_. But we're incredibly open, like our customer service, our reach out to us.

It's really what we thrive on is talking with people. We love to help people. We love to communicate with people and maybe help people troubleshoot what the right. Combination of supplements could be to help them with something, you know, something they've got going on. Uh, we thrive on that. You know, we we're, we're all just people, you know, trying to be healthy and better today than we were yesterday.

So, uh, we learn from our customers a ton. So don't ever be shy if there's a question you have or input at all, anything, uh, reach out to us. We've got a great customer service line, or, or send me. A, uh, a message. Um, my, my personal email is kevin@wildernessathlete.com, so any feedback, questions, or ideas you have, uh, we're, we're looking forward to hearing him, so please don't hesitate to reach out.

Awesome. We'll make sure to put that in the show notes. And, uh, just a reminder to follow and subscribe to the Work Ready Podcast on YouTube, apple Podcast or Spotify just helps ensure that you get access to the latest episodes like this. And if this changed how you think about fueling your body, make sure to share it with someone on your crew, with your safety leader, your operational leader, so that you have the access to the best information about how you guys can stay strong on the job.

Until next time. Take care of yourself. Take care of your people, and stay work ready. Thanks so much.