The Science Behind Longevity in the Trades

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What happens when a leader who spent 30 years in the trades, building, leading, and grinding suddenly hits a wall? 6

months in, I I mean, I was 35 minutes from taking my life in my truck. My daughter asked me to stay home that day,

and it was what I needed, the light. In today's episode, Justin Asel shares the lessons he learned about burnout,

leadership, and the mission that pulled him back. Mission mindset. Make a commitment to yourself. That's what I

call mindset maintenance. You all earn at least one hour a day of mental

currency, mindset currency. Sher's one hour is spended maintaining yourself

because toughness isn't about hiding pain. It's about facing it together. This is the Work Ready podcast.

[Music]

If you're out there putting in long shifts, carrying heavy loads, and still trying to save energy for home, this

podcast is for you. We share the same kind of field tested tools we use with the pros, but made for workforce

athletes like you. If that's the journey you're on, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next step forward.

Meet Justin — 30 years in the trades + Marine Corps

Hello, this is the Work Ready Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Kevin Rendall. Uh I'm so excited to be joined by Justin Asbill

today. Justin has spent over 30 years uh in the trades in construction and uh

various different realms and just has a tremendous amount of uh experience and

more recently he's really become a powerful voice especially in uh in this space of mental health and just

empowering leaders to live fulfilled lives. Justin, to kick things off, when you think back over 30 years in the

trades, what were some of the biggest physical and mental challenges you saw frontline workers experiencing each day?

That's a great question, Kevin, man. Like, so I think the the biggest challenge is when you're first and

foremost, you you got we always start really early. Um or or we work night

shift. It it never stops, right? So I think one of the biggest challenges is uh for one getting there on time but two

um it's the constant change like you have a plan in your mind of what you

want to do in the day but construction in any it doesn't matter what industry whether it's utility whether it's

plumbing um pipe fitting just in general building there's constant change and uh

you have to constantly adapt daily to new risk new challenges. Uh it could be

people challenges, it could be mindset challenges, but a lot of times it has to do with um organizations that have teams

that have to work together. And uh in the trades, we don't always see eye to eye, you know. So I think adapting to

the different things was uh probably some of the biggest challenges. Um from a a risk perspective, when I first

The real everyday challenges field workers face

started, buildings took 5 years to build. they're they're they're down to 19 months sometimes, you know what I

mean? So, I think the challenge now is like are is our

industry keeping up the human side with the technology and the innovation side,

right? So, I think that that would be the best way to answer that question. Yeah. And right now, we have multiple

generations in the construction industry all working together. like how have you seen mindset uh in the trades change

during that 30-year time frame? Wow. Uh so when I first started

the suck it up, buttercup kind of mindset. Most of our leaders

like my first foreman I think uh he just turned 50 years old and got and received

the the that title for he'd been a good leader already. Um but however like now

now the average age of a of a leader in the field is 25 to 30 years old. So I mean that's been cut in half right so

you see the baby boomers people I came up that they were my form and the

leaders uh they were you know being taught by people who had returned from World War II and they they uh mindset

was weakness isn't allowed. I mean that was like the motto in my house like growing up was we don't raise weak men,

right? Uh it actually set me up for success, but also set me up for failure, too. Um cuz you know that mindset, no

one's going to reach out to get help. Uh you're too prideful, your ego. Um stuff

like that. But then you're starting to see the different generations come into the leadership roles like millennials.

They have no problem telling you how it is. They have no problem saying, "Yeah, hey, I'm not good with that because I

watched my parents suffer my whole life." You know, that kind of deal. And then the next generation after that it's even more intense of making sure that

you know work life balance they it means a lot more to them. Um again they've seen people suffer through

the industry uh mindset wise but the other side is um

the positive to that is they've seen people like how they become successful and constant working. Um drinking from

seven fire hoses used to be the way I would that I thought was the right way. But what I'm learning is uh we work

smarter not harder, right? So um the the new generations are saying, "Hey, um I

can do this new part of my role, but I also have these other seven things. What's a priority?" Because I can't do

them all. So I think you're seeing people be more honest about it in the industry. But um it's at risk because

still you got the old guys like me running stuff. So like, uh you know, you get those guys saying, "Hey, that person

said they can't do something, so I'm setting them on the bench." So, it's a it's it's risky, but at the same time,

um it's hit or miss. I think the industry is a mixed bag right now. And that could be good for some people. But,

uh that's some one of the reasons I got into what I'm doing now is like I see

the issues with how I came up and I'm passing on those lessons learned in a

productive layman's mindset way to help build the next generation. um not not

the my way way or what I think is all right or perfect, but like so we're

supposed to is hand down what we've learned to better the next generations and hopefully the industry

catches up with all the innovations that helped us get faster from the human side of it. So you've been really outspoken

just about the mental health crisis that's going on in the trades right now and have just become a huge advocate and

voice in in that space. How do you feel like and you said you know the suck it up buttercup mentality but like how has

that tough guy toughness mentality shape the way we talk or don't talk about

mental health you know till 2020 I I was the person

“Suck it up” culture and why it hurts the trades

I mean there's there's several different parts of that so first and foremost I before 2020 I was the person saying hey

I don't know why anybody's talking about this I don't see it right. And um after

2020, we started getting real live data on loss of life due to substance use

disorder and then also uh suicide uh death by suicide. And

uh I took a I I mean I took a phone call in 2020, you know, I got called up. I

thought I was going to be laid off, but I was getting called up to take up an additional role. So, I had never

suffered from mental health issues, depression or any of that stuff. Barely

ever drink. So, alcohol is not an issue for me. Uh, never I've never done any drugs ever to this day. And I'm 54

today, right? So, like I I I'm I'm the guy sitting on the outside saying, you

know, just don't even worry about that stuff. The stat, you know, we got to focus on injury and illnesses, right?

Well, we we lose over 5,000 people in the industry, 5,95 and 23 um to death by

suicide and over 15,000 to substance use disorder. Right. So,

we lose around a thousand due Can I stop you real quick? Put that in perspective with the number

of on the job deaths that happen. That's where I was going. I mean 1,000 annually by you know in the

construction industry. So that's 5 to one death by suicide. And then I'm a big

data guy, right? So and then when I when I first started seeing this, you know, was 2021 or 2022, it was 17,000 deaths

The numbers nobody talks about — suicide & SUD

by substance use disorder. That means opiate crisis, alcoholism, you know, the

whole mixed bag, right? So like people are suffering, you know, and and

when I started seeing that data doesn't lie, right? So like that's how most executives that's how most leadership

you know they use data to okay this is how I'm going to make my decision based on this data because it's a it's a

safety net right like helps with comfort um when I started looking at that I was

like holy cow man um I had suffered six months only 6 months I went from getting

the phone call to my hours going from 10 hours to 19 hours a day completely

completely surrounded by pressure, stress, negative conversations. I was getting threatened and it was because I

was I took an operational roles and COVID and people were uncomfortable. So, I was every call I received was bad

pretty much. So, when you get surrounded by that, I started suffering from sleep deprivation,

um not sleeping, and then I I'm real big about how I get treated like it it it

fuels my emotions. So like if you're dealing with threats and you know conflict all day long and you can't

control it because like at that level of leadership, you can't threaten them back. You got to take the high road,

right? There's code of conduct when you're at that level, right? So I think that I'm just like any person that gets

a phone call, hey, we want you to take this promotion and do this other you're not going to say no, especially because you I've been brought up you don't turn

down opportunity. So um everybody's like that in the trades. We're honorable.

We're pride people. We're honorable. We don't turn down work. Our thought processes, we've been generationally

taught that the higher you move up the ladder, the more successful you are, which it's not easier up the higher you

get, right? Just adds more processes. And then, um, so 6 months in, I I mean, I was 35 minutes

from taking my life in my truck. My daughter asked me to stay home that day. And I I at the time I you know, I'm a

dad. That's my whole life. And I another part that was messing with my mind was

in my mind I had felt like I had disowned my wife and daughter. I put them on the back burner so much that I

The six months that broke everything

didn't deserve a relationship with them even. And it was all it's it's what happens when you're depressed, sleepd

deprived. Your brain starts playing tricks on you. And um I was like I can

never go back. I'm never going to get that back. So like all of this stuff was on my mind like I'm going to lose my house if I get fired. um you know so who

suffers more right that that kind of stuff was going through my mind and you know that day I asked you know she stay

I stayed home and you know she she called me by the first word she ever said was papa it's like papa stay home I

love you and you know I was like the medicine I needed at the time but uh I

said okay so I secured my bag cuz I I had a lethal means of any of my life in that bag I take it everywhere with me um

Actually, it's it's right over here. It's it's a snack bag, right? And um I went into her room and I was watching

her. She was just so thrilled that I was in the room with her. And she's I love

you, Papa. I kept looking over. She's like glowing. It was It was so amazing. Um anyhow, I fell asleep in her bean

bag. I mean, first time in six months, I it slapped, right? So, um later on that

day, I I I I woke up. She's just getting done with lunch. She's laughing. head papa, you fell asleep. You know, I mean,

now they should have been recording me with her phone like to blackmail me, right? But anyhow, uh it it it w it was

what I needed the light just to get me to kind of start processing different. I

slept a little bit and then I asked my 8-year-old daughter, "Hey, can I get on this call?" And she gave me this most

The moment in the truck — 35 minutes from a tragic decision

awful look, man. It was so degradous. Um Kevin, she looked at me like, "Are you serious, man?" Like, you know what I

mean? So I I uh I said it's with Uncle Josh. He's like, "Oh, it's with Uncle Josh." "Okay." Yeah, you it's okay. I'll

be I'll be I'll be right back in less than an hour. So uh on this call,

there's like 50 of us. It was when Zoom just started. So if you remember that.

Yeah. And on the bottom screen, I could see one of my a friend. We I call him dad

still to this day. He's an amazing person. Um, and he was upset emotionally

and he's he had just lost his best friend and he vocally was vulnerable on this call. We were all vulnerable on

this call about how we felt. I was giving everybody advice on these calls all the time that I should give myself cuz I was suffering so bad. But anyways,

he um it's like devastating. He goes, "I don't know how I'm going to go on that. I lost my best friend." And it was just

kind of what we call my clarity moment. Um, see, because I had been masking how I was inside to everybody, including

my wife, everybody. I was so bad at that time for like a month and a half, almost two months. All that was on my mind is

how I could like end it in my life. I mean, that was if I wasn't working, I was thinking about suicidal uh thoughts,

His daughter’s voice — and the sleep that saved his life

you know? So, like that's part of serious depression. That's part of when that's all you're ex, you know, consumed

by, that's that's the direction you go, right? So, uh, after that call, man, I

got off and I immediately called Josh back and was like, "Bro, I need help, man. I need to talk to someone." And his

first his immediate response was, "I know you do." He he had gone through the

same thing. And he's like, "I can see the suffering in your face on the call."

And he goes, "I love you, man. I care about you. Let's talk." So, I mean, that's that's all it took was me asking

for help. And it was such an easy process for me. But after I saw all the

statistics, it really it really was like something ringing my bell like, "Hey man, you need

to start focusing on this other stuff because a lot of people are suffering. Those numbers tell me." So I started digging

into the data. And at that time I, you know, I I had no idea where it was

in the industry. And I mean there's a lot of good raw data out there right now, you know, like

the uh 5,000 plus the 15,000 plus uh deaths by suicide and then substance use

disorder. There's also a statistic out there that 125 people are impacted by

one loss by suicide. So that means 125 individuals, human beings are impacted

The Zoom call that flipped everything

by that person's death by suicide. Right? So, like I'm looking at all this, I'm like, "Okay, I don't wear a Superman

cape or anything like that. I'm just one human being, but I'm going to transition from safety cuz those numbers 10,000

haven't changed in forever. This is a bigger number of human beings suffering and and losing life, you know.

Um, what can I do?" So started transitioning into that space

into 20 22 more because that's when I was finally good in my recovery. I I I

use shadow work. So for your listeners that might be silently suffering or they

might be someone that just wants to learn more about themsel and and whatnot, look up the word shadow work.

There's great stuff online about it. It's been around since the 10th century. samuris have been using it since back

then. I mean, that's that's how they made it honorable to deal with the stuff they did. I mean, you think about their

life, that was crazy. But, um, started using shadow work. And so, in 22, I really started getting involved in

this space to learn more about it, like what was out there, what was the what was everybody thinking. And the thing

that made me really touch my heart more was the stigma side of it, which was

everybody assumed it was people suffering from addiction. Everybody assumed it was people who brought these

problems on themselves. So then I got asked, you know, my friend Josh asked me, he's like, "Hey, you should share

some of the stuff about what you went through because it's not relevant to what people think this mind space is,

right?" So um when I started doing that people started listening like holy cow.

So the first time I vocally shared my experience was in 2023

for the association of union contractors at their leadership summit in Savannah, Georgia.

Now they they had the term go big or you know go hard or go big, whatever it is, right? And you can't get any bigger than

this crowd. This is the most prominent union

presidents and leaders of the entire United States in this room. There was

over 200 of them. I had Eric Dean, president of the Iron Workers. I had the

president of Ford. I had the president of Chevy. I had the president of data

centers in this room. Um, we we had the president of the UA, the vice president

of the UA. We had the president of the MCA, Na. I mean, everybody was in this

room. Nobody had any idea what I was going to do. And I shared my experience

with them. And I challenged everybody at the end like we need to start modeling

change. How do you do that? First and foremost, we have to be vulnerable and share that we're human beings. Uh we all

have to maintain oursel using mindset maintenance or we use the word self-care. Some people do. I use the

words mindset maintenance because the trade professionals that I speak with, they don't like the word self-care. It

Asking for help (and why most don’t)

sounds clinical, right? Um so I just shared with them like the importance of

having what I call mindset clubs, peer groups. Um you have to talk to other

human beings. uh in my research I found after the age of 30 people stop talking to human other human beings because they

get married they they start having more responsibility they start having children they start uh taking promotions

everyone uses this all the time to communicate like they they screen time you know like so um I challenged this

group to this so with no idea of the impact I was going to make I I

had no idea right afterwards Eric Dean comes up to me. He's a very

powerful guy. He's returned at the end retired at the end of this year. But he came up to me. He goes, "You just

completely blew my mind, Justin." He goes, "I never looked at this problem like that. You were just a normal human

being. You took on everything that you they threw at you to this this you were sacrificing for the company work for

your family, everything. And I never thought of it this way." And I was like, that's why I shared because we got to

change. We got to understand the stigma side. And then vice president of the UA,

his name's Mike. He came up to me and he goes, "I just want you to know like it's like he just sucker punched me in the

eye." And I was like, "Whoa, I didn't mean that." He goes, "No, listen." He goes, "I needed that." He goes, "I

didn't look at this problem like this." He goes, "I you're you're an everyday

From suffering to purpose — Mission Mindset

normal human being just like all of our all of all of the UA. like all humans

could go down this path easily by just taking a phone call and he goes we got to do something different. So

I had no idea that that was going to have that impact. I knew my audience but I wanted them to see like different

right and uh ever since then my phone's been ringing off the hook and

at the end of last year I left Milwaukee Tool. I I told my boss in in uh August

of last year said, "Hey, I need to refocus my my attention on this. It's growing. It's something that we need."

Um I knew at the mid year this year I'd be done with my PhD. So I was like,

I need to start building programs for this. And at first he was mad at me because he was a good friend. He didn't

want to lose me. I was doing great for him. But then like a week and a half later, he called me goes, "I want to talk. Let's talk." And he I thought he

was going to try to convince me to stay. Uh, I was I was gungho. I was like, I'm not changing my mind. Once I make my

decision, I'm good, right? But instead, he's like, I'm here for you, brother. I

I support you're bigger than this. Like, this is a big deal, and I support you. So, uh, ever since, man, Mission

Mindset's been on fire in a way. Um, I just recently in the last 3 months

started pen to paper putting actual structured format programs together. Uh,

because that's what people want to see. They they want to see like a a structured program that they can stick

in their policy book. Then also when I go there, it's not just talking points.

they could I can leave with an impression and then they can carry that on forward and and integrate that into

their culture, right? So, it's it's been great. Um, not in a million years if you would have

said 30 years ago like, hey, you're going to have your PhD uh in 2025 and you're going to own your own company and

you're going to be passing all your leadership stuff on to other human beings in the industry hoping for a better laughing at you, right? Like just

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Man, thank you so much for sharing that story. And I a signature part of who you are, Justin, is just your your

willingness to put it all out there. And I think that is so empowering for people who might be in a similar spot. And it

challenges them to confront some of the things that they might be dealing with on their own. And as as you're going

through this, I kind of feel like there are two camps out there. They're either someone who maybe resonates with with

your story and where you were at that exact moment when your daughter came in and it's just like everything in the

world is piling up on them and it's like how do I how do I get out from underneath that? But then there also

might be other people in another camp like Josh who are in a good spot and can

be that listening ear. And I mean I I feel like

those those we may have listeners uh who may be in either camp. So what would you say to those people? Number one, the

people who might be where you were at your lowest point and then the other person who uh may be in a good spot and

The Code Series explained

what can they do to recognize others in need and be that that person to support them and help them walk through that

that dark time? So there's two things there, two camps, right? So, I like to look at things

systematically. I think it's important to communicate with people on, you know, meet them

where they're at. You like we we we talk about workforce readiness a lot, right? And I think it's important to identify

like systematically before you we even start talking about the people suffering like I did. Like I think it's important

to recognize there there's some things in the construction industry already set up against us, right? So, let's there's

400,000 open jobs. 18% of our workforce is retiring next year, which is

leadership. 10,000 baby boomers are are uh eligible for retirement every single

day right now. Right? So, we're asking people, we're going to be asking people to step up in roles they're probably not

prepared for. Um the other side of that means that it it on a daily basis when

you're on the job when someone's acting aggressive as a leader using fear-based

leadership uh not 90% of the time they're hiding a skill gap right so um

everything in both camps comes down to one important thing to recognize

communication. It's so important. It's so easy to hit the trigger button

and be up in someone's face telling them, "Hey, you don't talk to me that way or whatever." But, you know, being a

human is the best thing we can all do. And the most most important part to me

was that I've learned through my my journey is seek to understand people better. So, when with me in instead of

letting all of the negative conversations I was taking and the threats and stuff like that, I took it

very personal. I let it, you know, stuff that is inside of me, you know, as much as possible. Um,

you know, we compress all of the stuff that happens to us, right? So, I think it's important

to deal with each challenge as they come. Now, it's not always that easy. I get it. But at least have the

conversation like, "Hey, brother. I appreciate your phone call. I get you're not comfortable with this, but why why

are you why do you feel like it's okay to talk to me like this?" Like trying to

understand you better. Why do you feel this way? Is there something that we can really look at and approach in a

proactive way that deal with this versus you calling and threatening me? Cuz just

so you know, I just took six calls like this and have you thought about the human side of me? Like I know you you're

working for us as a general contractor. However, I'm a man. I'm a human being. I have kids at home, you know, like a

wife. Like making it personal. I think that's one side of it. And then like the Josh side like we were talking about the

for those that are comfortable enough I empower I I think we need to learn to

empower people to have more open conversations and give them opportunity to have conversations when the one of

the things I can tell everybody I've been in this industry since I was uh 22 years old and even before that I was

working in the industry since I was 12. It's just I grew up working with my hands, right? We size people up quickly

in the industry as boots on the ground people. We all know when someone's off.

We all know when someone's suffering. We all know when they're not being themselves. They're

being, you know, irritated. They're taking more risks. They're talking about having the life insurance all set up. um

you know talking about hey this is going to be great when I'm not around kind of convers so like let's empower people to

say hey bro you're not your normal self let's go have conversation hey you're

not comfortable talking to me I get it man no one likes to have conversations about who they are and what they're

going through let's call the EAP together like or hey let's and you know

I'm not a big 988 fan but last resort All right. Call call together. But the

most important part is having the conversation before it gets to crisis mode. So personally like the people that

are doing great, build relationships with those that you think might be suffering. Start having conversation

with them. Meet with them before. Hey, can we meet before work 30 minutes? Let's have coffee together. And then

just say, hey, how you doing, man? I I I've noticed you're been agitating lately. What's going on? like and then

you're going to find like if you open the door for that person to have a conversation with you, they're going to find out that you're just like them. You

just handle handle the different challenges differently because you've been through that journey more. You know

what I mean? I I think it's a type of mentoring that we need to get back to. That's how it was when I first started

in the industry. But we're so competitive now and then we're honestly people are working so far beyond

capacity. Kevin, I mean, we take so much on and then the the the father's stuff, the mother

stuff, the heck, dude. Like, when I was driving to Boston every day, I left at 2:45 in the morning to get there, get a

good workout in before I started and just to get a good parking spot and to beat traffic so I didn't get stuck an

extra hour in the morning. On the way home, same. like it's you try to leave

Capacity overload — why field leaders burn out

early, but if you if you're there after 1:45, 2:00, you're going to have an extra hour onto your drive time. So,

like again, capacity plays its role in everyone's life. And I just think it's important to early on start having

conversations as human beings about life challenges so that everything just doesn't build up on you. What are some

of the lessons that you learned in terms of managing capacity? Because you know I

think especially people in construction they tend to be servant type people who they they just want to work. They want

to help other people but um sometimes you have to help yourself first so that you can actually have that capacity.

This was one of my hardest to learn about it capacity. It's um I tell people

all the time like uh I have a problem and it's I don't know how to say no. I'm

I'm a I am servant-minded. I like to help every anybody that calls me. If someone wants to call me and say, "Hey,

can you help me out with this?" I would try to help. And that's just how I've always everything I've always done has

been about other people helping people, right? So, um the first thing and foremost I always

try to teach everybody is how much time in 24hour day are you working?

And that includes driving to work, emailing when you get home, uh opening

your computer, at all in everything. Write down on a piece of paper track how how much you working, right? So I think

it surprises specifically people in the construction industry and when you look at it that way, like how many hours a

day that they are actually working. So that's the first foremost like is recognizing how much they're working.

And then the next thing is what are you doing for yourself? How

much time a day are you putting away for yourself as a just you as a human being? That doesn't mean go and spend time with

your daughter, go and spend time with your go to you know do anything but like are you dedicating any time to yourself?

We have to have some time to oursel every day to just kind of clear your

head. And I do it I call it mindset maintenance, right? um

setting boundaries after you figure out the time you spend working and then if you have any time

once you figure out how much time you need to maintain inner peace you set

that as a boundary right so um the reason I I always bring this up is because we tend to take like if we get a

phone call I've been a safety for almost 25 a little over 25 years solid right My

my whole day can change with a phone call. Hey Justin, just had a crane failure. Okay. Hey babe, I'm gonna be in

Boston till tomorrow because I'm gonna be at this in, right? So like everything throws off. So then then after that, I'm

trying to play catchup for weeks, right? So that's everyone's life in the construction industry too. So like if

you're a foreman, hey, uh two of our people called in sick today. They're trying to negotiate how to get maintain

the schedule they have. Right. So the other thing on capacity and it's talking about systematical issues that tie to

it. Yeah. I try to remind people that the most of the jobs we're working on,

it doesn't matter if it's utility, it doesn't matter if it's underground uh building a skyscraper or bridge,

whatever. That job was bid five and six and seven years ago. And the company has

no idea who's me still working for them then. Millennials leave every 5 years estimated, right? So um when you look at

that and you have foremen and you have field leaders, it's so important to

teach them about capacity because it's really easy to navigate and try to take

more on to maintain a schedule that was was figured out and designed six and

seven years ago. So like there's a lot of things going on there, right? So I think sometimes

especially nowadays I talk a lot about training people about maintaining capacity because of the evils that can

come from it. Um because it just takes you down bad paths most of the time right so it does it does do good for

some people that it proves that they can handle a little bit more but at some point you're going to get maxed out. So,

The mindset plan Justin uses daily

the reason I bring it up is because if something does happen, you have no negotiating and then you're what you're

going to be doing is checking the box, getting as much done as you possibly can, and then you're not going to be an effective leader because you're not

going to have time for that human connection with other human beings, right? So, again, you see there's

multiple things that has to do with capacity, but it's important to set

boundaries when it does come to capacity. That's that that's one of the most vital things I try to pass on to everybody. Yeah, those are great

recommendations. And even with uh managing capacity, like what are some things that you've been able to do?

Maybe it's exercise, so it's it's working on that piece. It might be nutrition, sleep, uh hydration. What are

some of those things, strategies that you employ to help manage that capacity?

That is a great question. Um I have what's called a mindset plan. Um, when I first started my recovery

process in shadow work, it teaches a lot about self-reflection.

And um, one of the things I noticed the best I've when I'm at my best, I have a

routine. And, uh, my routine is always to start my day with either reflection

or uh, I write in a journal. You It's funny like it's almost like against guy

code to say I journal, right? But I journal. I tell everybody it's okay. It's okay to be to be a man and journal.

But um I start my day out with I mean I have like a pack of them right here that

I've been doing for you know I do it every day. But um I start my day out and it really helped me re rewire my brain.

I think of five things I can have gratitude for and I write it down. And what I found is over time

I've had more gratitude for the smaller things than I used to just think big, right? Um it makes you get creative.

That's my goal is to be be be great uh have gratitude for the smallest things in life because then you don't forget

where you started from. So then I typically do either a power walk. I know you can't see it, but behind me over

there I have like hundreds of medals. I I used to do half marathons, um 10Ks,

5Ks, all that stuff all the time. Um now that I'm 54, it hurts too much, right?

So I do power walks every day and in my power walks. Um and then I I use a lot

do a lot of kettle ball workouts. I I listen to music that just how I'm feeling that day. It just gives me a

little inner peace. It clears my head. So then afterwards, it's like I'm almost dangerous because I have a clear head.

I'm in a great mood. I'm motivated and I can get a lot done that way. Um, the other thing is I have weekly call

check-ins with my warrior club. It It's a personal peer group. Uh, Josh Rizzo

and Chad Ningerfell. I wouldn't be as good as I am today if it weren't for those two guys. We check in with each

other and and it's not all bad. Like I I talked uh we had a gathering yesterday.

Um and and it was funny like we just talked about how old we're getting. We

talked about growing garden. You like just little stuff cuz Jos lives in Oregon, Chad lives in South Carolina. I

live in South Massachusetts. So it's not all like bad stuff. But then there's

sometimes like, "Hey, my my daughter is driving me bonkers." Like, "Have you had this problem?" And you know, Chad can

say, "Yeah, hey, my my grandson did the same thing." And so you're not alone, you know. So you start realizing that

the challenges you're having most other human beings have challenges with. And then it's it's just such a a relieving

feeling knowing that like I'm not crazy. I'm not the only one that feels this way, right? So I have the warrior club

meetings. We do it weekly or if something's up, we need we need help. Um

we we would do the call. But then also, you hit on it a minute ago about maintaining sleep.

I used to be a 5h hour night guy for the longest time and then when I went through my six-month process it was I

had to be less than two and I ke I would always keep telling myself hey you can

do this in the Marine Corps you went seven and a half days without sleep first week boot camp and then in the

thick of of battle we I think I did 17 days straight without right so like I I

keep telling myself uh you can do this listen I'm not I'm not 20 years old no more man like I got to be smarter than

that, right? So, 7 hours of sleep every night. I try to maintain it. Even when

I'm at trade shows, even when I'm out doing uh keynote sessions or whatever, I

maintain that schedule. I try to get there earlier in the day so I can maintain 7 hours of sleep. Uh I do I I

Warrior clubs — the power of peer check-ins

do have to budge off of it sometimes. Like if I'm on West Coast, I always take Red Eyes home. I try to sleep, but I'm

just not a good sleeper on planes. But uh the the sleep deprivation and then the last one is for my routine is

maintaining my boundaries being accountable for them and committed to them and u my my peer group my my

warrior club and even my wife you know they check in on me. Hey man, how you

doing? Are you my wife knows if I'm getting seven hours but like if if I'm not keeping up like hey did you work out

this week or did you work out today? like it just helps with me accountability cuz I asked her to do it

and that accountability the with the with the boundaries if someone goes down

that path I challenge them to make sure they had the conversation with their significant other like hey like me it

was hey babe I was my worst I've ever been those six months I never want to get back to it first and foremost I'm

really sorry I got to that place I never meant to but like can you make sure I'm

sticking to these because this helps me maintain me my best me, right? So, that conversation went a long way with with

from the human side. And then with my my warrior club, hey guys, this is my this is my boundaries. I said, I mean, I have

a I have a whole dock on it. I filled it out and I I have it on the wall. And I

tell people this all the time, like you write something down and you're looking at all the time, you're more apt to do

it. If you just talk about it once, you're not you're not going to stick to it, right? So having having that plan

and then sticking to it, that routine is major. Um that hour a day is so vital.

But the other thing is I don't drink much alcohol at all. Uh so that's that's one deal. Uh try to limit my sugar. And

then the other side is I do a lot of stretching. Uh the older I get, I feel like it just helps me clear my head, but

also helps me if I'm sitting in a chair too long, all that good stuff. Man, uh Justin, you touched on so many

good things. I I think the key takeaway, and this is reinforced by so much

scientific literature, that there's no silver bullet when it comes to overall health and wellness. And we often times

think that health is is one thing, but it's like the physical, mental, social,

spiritual um aspects of of wellness. And and you

have to be doing a little bit in each area. And and like you said, sleep. I just had a conversation here on the

worker podcast with uh Dr. Eric Rogers, a sleep specialist, and he just reinforces like

oftentimes we think that we're tough by not getting enough sleep, but there's no redeeming qualities uh related to sleep

deprivation. I mean, it's it's the one thing that just continues to, you know, impact your body and your mind and and

everything is tied back to the ability for our body to to recover. And um I I

do find it interesting that when you were at your lowest point, you completely crashed on a bean bag. And

and and it was like that was one of the things that helped helped pull you out of that that moment.

Yeah. I mean it it just told me that day like everything's not as bad as you thinking

How to build your own crisis plan

it is, Justin. Like your daughter told you how much she loved you. She wanted you to spend time with her. And then I

fell asleep. like it was just a sign to me like, "Okay, you don't have to give up." You know what I mean? Um I I would

love to find out who the person was that said you're a tough so if you don't get

enough sleep because I'd like to punch them in the eye, right? I mean, um you know, I think back if you really think

about look at all the stuff that we do as leaders and as men and everything like that in the industry. um that for

whatever reason we feel like it makes us look like more macho or whatever and it's just like work smarter not harder

taking on 27 additional tasks just that that does that really make me look like

a more impactful leader no it makes me look like I'm an idiot because I don't know when to say no right so I just

think if you as a human being as an individual that's worked in this industry if people would take more time

to to take a step back and really like pause for a little while and be

Okay, what was I thinking there? I I'm such a because like really like if I if I continue this path, I'm just

going to be putting band-aids everywhere. It's not merely being an impactful leader. It just means that I

could have my finger on a bunch of things and never get anything done, right? I mean it just I just feel like

that human side of things like and I wrote my paper on that you know that I mean the the understanding that human

aspect and the really taking a step back and saying to yourself like hey

I'm not supposed to be per I'm imperfect. I'm working in an imperfect industry imperfect job. No job's

perfect. like let's accept that for what it is and just say okay how can I be my

best you know we tal I talked about this with the group yesterday is that sometimes where you're at might be your

best place you know you don't always have to keep trying to move up the ladder because I've been really pushing

hard for the longest time with some of these younger guys that's worked under me and like hey this seat's all nice the

paycheck's okay but everything involved in it not so easy I'm telling you guys,

you don't see a lot of the things that I'm impacted by because I hide it from you. Please just remember that like

learn as much as you can till you get there because it's not easy, right? So, I always try to explain that to people

is sometime is sometimes it's good to be where you're at. I mean, enjoy where you're at. Sometimes um sometimes it's

good. I'm not telling people that they don't have to, you know, ex want to be successful, but sometimes just enjoying

where they're at in and in in life and learning as much as possible might be

the best thing for a person at that time. You know what I mean? Justin,

a lot of people who have been 30 years in any industry, they probably in their mind are thinking, "Can't wait to wind

How to help someone who’s struggling

down, can't wait to retire." And I feel like you're just ramping up and you have so much purpose. Like it's it's so cool

to see how you've doubled down on wanting to actually increase your impact

at this stage in your career. Uh you're doing a lot with uh mission mindset. Can

you tell us more about that? And uh you have what you developed it's called the

code series and we're going to walk through that but tell us a little bit more first just about mission mindset as a starting point.

So m mission mindset um when I when I made the decision to I was semi-retired

what we told people is that um I wanted to take the next level and when I when I

started doing u my research paper for um my dissertation paper for my PhD in

organizational leadership I wanted to take a look at the industry where we're

at what we're doing and what what I started to learn was that and and It's

it's alarming almost like so less than 5% of

organizations in our industry offer or put people through leadership training.

Now leadership training could be used in a broad slogan of different things. Um

but what I look at leadership training as is systematical structured programs to help

people lead others to higher level of human performance like workforce

readiness right so frontline leaders weren't getting the training it was all se people right so I

kept looking and I'm I'm in the industry 30 years and boots on the ground seeing the people making the impact and that's

foremen and and journeymen and and field leaders superintendents, right? They're the people they're the ones that handle

all of the people stuff every day and not no one's teaching them basic

fundamentals. And and when I say basic fundamentals, meaning that how to have a professional

conversation in a conflictual situation, um fear-based leadership is thrives in

the industry. And I understand it now more because it's what people have used

to get where they are. So they're gonna always stick to what they're doing because that's their comfort zone,

right? So um what I did at mission mindset was when I started seeing these

systematical issues, I just wanted to create programs for for anybody that needed

help with it uh to help them be a better higher level um leader.

how to have a conversation, uh how to understand the parts of leadership that

can take you down a bad road. Uh but the the other side is just trying to give

them a fair shake, fair chance because uh I never got that. I I'm lucky that I

was surrounded by really good people to learn from them because like yes, I went

to college, but they don't teach you how to be a leader in college. They teach you how to do academic work that has

nothing to do with the industry you're in, right? Like 90% of the construction workforce is in the workforce as a B or

C plan. Wasn't their first choice of career path, right? I I don't know how many people work in the industry with

financing degrees with u even engineering degrees. they're engineers and they're not even using like there's

a lot of people in the industry and then there's the people who boots on the ground came up like me

no no one ever taught me to how how to be a leader I just got lucky and learned some stuff in the military and then from

people I was surrounded with right so how can I provide a skill set to them mindset skill set and um that's what I

wanted through my research I I uh I surveyed 3,151 people man in the

industry And 76% said they didn't trust the person that's their leader, their

supervisor. That's really bad. And I always ask why. And it's it's and

most of them said it was because they don't feel that they're experienced enough. And so we're back to the other

stats and all of this stuff. And I was like, man, we're our industry is heading for a bad bad

place. So not that I can fix it all. I just wanted to say hey let me maybe I can do my part. So I started designing

programs you talked about it the code series uh I got the performance code I

mean I wrote everything is called a code uh everything that I do systematically connects to one another. I have lifeline

14. Um the performance code, the safety code, the vault. Everything that I put

together is human performance focus, mindset focus, culture focus, and

leadership focus. It's a skill set, my experience and my research and my

education. I put it all together. Um my hope is to at least impact one or two

people, but you know, my goal is 5%. Right? If I figure if out of everybody I

talk to, if I impact 5% I'm I'm meeting my goal, right? But uh I just want to give people an opportunity to go to work

every day, have inner peace, teach them how to have conversations

that are going to be tough sometimes, but a structured format. And then the mindset

the uh the mindset code, the arena code, and the um

um I got the arena code, the capacity code, and the mindset code, and the alley code. It's all all combined, and

it all just focuses on teaching them things that might impact them um in the industry. You you know, I read I read

what's called the Joiners Theory. Um, it's the most common risk to suicide in

the industry when I first started out with my research and the I added two to

them. I call it the lifeline 14. Um, there's 14 mindset risks associated with

suicide in our industry. So, these codes all align with preparing people to avoid

those 14 mindset risks if that if that makes sense. So, um, my journey and

everything I went through, I don't want other people to have to go down that because if I pass this information on,

maybe it might help them avoid going down that six-month path. Maybe you could expand on that a little

bit more. So, it's called the for what is it? The 14. Yeah, the I call it the lifeline 14.

Lifeline 14. It's the 14. It's the mindset risk of the construction industry. Um, the

Joiner series was written um in 2006. I wish I would have known about it back

then. Um, however, it's the most common risk of suicide and when they overlap

each other, the risk gets higher. Um, when I was at my worst, September the

9th, 2000 of 20, I had 10 of them. Um,

so I think I was lucky to last that long. But I think most people at three

PPE communication model (purpose-people-expectation)

it it it's not good. So that's when I when I when I read this I was like I was

kind of mad at first. I was like man I wish I would have known about this. And part of the this code series is in the

lifeline 14 is getting out that information up front letting people know

this is real. This exists like look at me what I went through and there's 5,000

people that lose their life death by suicide every year. That means there's a lot more people suffering, right? I

think there was a number that 1.5 million people uh annually think of taking taking their life to suicide. Um,

heck, there's almost 3 million calls to 988 that don't get answered. So, I mean, all of this stuff's coming out and I'm

like, we just really need to get these mindset risks out in front of people. So, that's what the the code series is

about is it's all tied together. How to avoid those mindset risks. But um I

start out with arena code. It talks about the systematical issues

of the industry. I kind of was talking or alluding to a little bit earlier like I call it the unseen risk. I mean you I

got asked to step up in leadership roles that I wasn't qualified for. Did I say no? No. You know I mean who who says I

don't know? Let me think about this a little while boss. Like if you're going to get take a promotion or not. I mean

you're going to take the promotion. It's all about the money, right? So, I just think it's important to um to help

people understand that, you know, there's issues in the, you know, in the arena that you're not probably seeing or

understanding. Uh to help you set that up. And then the mindset code, um I

wrote the mindset code based on shadow work. When I went through my first year

as shadower, I learned really how bad of a leader I really was. And I mean that like in a good way. I mean I I have such

high standards. I mean if you think about it the construction industry the minimum standards excellence.

That's a lot. That's hard right? So like uh mindset code really is a way to how

are you wired as a leader. Are you a growthminded person open-minded person?

Uh closed-minded person. So in the in the mindset code, the most

commonly used type of intelligence is called contextual intelligence in the construction industry. I learned about

it when I attended Harvard Business School. Um it's five different s you know five

different types of intelligence combined. Uh but it's most commonly used based on the constant need for adaption

due to constant change. Something like we talked about earlier, right? Every day the plan changes. There's no nothing

is the same. Um it's easy to get complacent on jobs like they're longterm, but there's so much change

every day. It's added pressure. It's, you know, it it could it could isolate

you real fast to thinking you're not impactful because everything's changing. You got to come up quick on your feet

with a plan, especially as a leader, right? So, um I I try to teach pe people

about contextual intelligence. And then how that impacts your emotional

intelligence. Emotional intelligence is how you react to contextual intelligence. Right? So if you think

about how many people field level leaders do you think's ever been taught about that

it they they're never taught about how how how are you wired, right? Like uh we

all take the test that tells you your A and D or whatever it might be. Um

but mine's changed every single times I've taken it because I've grown as a leader, right? So I I I try to teach

people mindset code um so they can figure out how they're wired but then also how to communicate. Um

so I have this five minutes I have a it's called uh it's a fivem minute challenge. I ask everybody to write in

five minutes their top five responsibilities that they have right now as a as a worker as a as a leader

could be a foreman whatever it might be. And I asked them to write down their top five responsibilities.

Um, and then I asked them in two other sections in the destructive setting which is

negative and then the constructive is positive. Write down how that responsibility impacts you and be honest

with yourself because if you and I tell if you're not going to be honest with yourself, you're not going to get anything out of this. So I said be be

Mentorship, leadership, and building strong crews

honest like my number one responsibility as a safety professional was incident

management right so how does that how does that impact me as a human being well I can tell you pressure uh skill

gap can come out if I miss something uh if someone gets hurt I'm I it's going to

be a long couple of weeks you like I could get fired you know all all of that stuff emotionally how and then how's the

positive right so uh I can tell you as a safety professional, your top five responsibilities, there's not a lot of

positive or constructive feelings, right? It's it's mostly destructive. Uh so then then after we look at that, we

take that destructive and how can we get this in the constructive? What is holding it up? Why is it in this process

um of destructive? And most of the time the people will find out they have a problem communicating. Like

we we hear the term in the industry called shopping for answers. Right? People do it a lot because they will

avoid going to somebody they know is going to be abrupt with them or you're not going to get the outcome you want.

All of this leads to the capacity thing, right? So people got to check things off to get it done where we're competitive

people like, "Hey, hey boss, I got all this done." But if you can't get it into the positive because you got to shop for

answers, why? And a lot of it has to do with people don't not have a conversation strategically

um when they have a conflict, right? So that leads into teaching them how to use

purpose, people, expectation as a foundational approach to having conversation. First foremost, you know,

a lot of people don't want to admit this, but if you practice having a conversation with someone before you go

have it, you're more equipped. So when I do when I do keynote sessions,

I will practice doing them nine times minimum before I go do it. I don't care if I've done it a 100 times. Just want

to practice because I'm more clear, more sharp, I got my brain clear, right? So if you practice like what's the purpose

of this conversation and you go up front with it like, "Hey, bro, I just want to be upfront with you. I'm looking for

advice on rigging. uh you do a great job of this rigging thing uh and keeping

everything all aligned and neat and orderly. How do you how do you accomplish that because like I'm

struggling with that and um it keeps coming up on our safety reports with these other guys. Uh so can you tell me

a little bit about how you've done that because that goes to the people side. You're you're seeking to understand them

more, right? Uh, and most people when you go at it that way, they're going to open up and have a normal conversation

with you. There's going to be the five and 7% like, I don't got time for this. Get away from me. Okay, you did your

best, right? But then the rest of the 93% are going to want to have conversation because they have to,

right? So once you let them tell you and you listen, then you can set the

expectation like, "Okay, great, man. So I just want to make sure I got this right." You say you you do it this way,

this way, and this way. So, if I go communicate with this other group, we

should all be aligned. Or, hey, can you repeat what I said to you? I want to make sure I didn't miss something. Uh, I

don't know how you are, Kevin, but growing up, my grandfather always be like, "Young man, wait, time out. What

did I just say to you?" Because he want to make sure I'm listening. Most people pull their phone out when someone's

talking, so they're not listening to you. So, you want, hey, put the phone down for a second. What did I just say to you? I just want to make sure we're

all clear. I mean, so getting into that format of practicing conflictual

conversations and have just a structured approach, um, I just think gives people a little bit better opportunity to avoid

conflict, which goes back to the 14 mindset risk, right? So less conflict, the less pressure, um, chronic pain, um,

you know, on down the list, right? So, I I think it's important to really think about that. Um because it really all

comes down to financial insta and instability. Like if you're doing good, you're handling business at work and

you're uh productive, you're not going to be worrying about your paycheck, right? So, like it it all comes down to those 14 mindset risk. Um and and we've

talked about the capacity code already. Um it's so powerful because the more

stuff you take on, the less you can really accomplish. It's less time. you have 24 hours a day. And if you're at

the job early and late, some bosses look at that as someone

that's had problems with time management, right? What they don't think about is they probably taught that

person to come in early and leave late, right? Because first in, first out or first in, last out kind of mindset

thrives in the construction industry. When I was at Kwit, it was like the game. Hey, I was here at 4:30 and I left

at 9:00 p.m. You know, like for whatever reason, it made us all look like we were doing more, which we weren't, right? We

we were just messing around more because we wanted to be the last one out the door. So, anyhow,

then I move it. It move it all ends with the ally code. The ally code is

something I created with that QRF team. Um when I started figuring out that most

people won't call an EAP because they feel like um they're not getting anything out of it or it's going to cost

them money because unfortunately there are some really bad EAPs out there that hey if I call for a counselor I get two

free visits but then after that I got to pay for it out of pocket. Right. So, um, most people aren't, most of the trade

professionals don't want to use an EAP because they're afraid someone's going to find out about it or it's going to make them look, uh, weak or whatever

because we've been brainwashed and thinking, you know, weakness is not allowed, that kind of thing. But, um,

then 988 not working. I've talked to you about that. The average answer rate most states is 80%. they call an answer uh

calling somebody back one and a half hours or three days later. I mean that wouldn't have worked for me. You know

what I mean? Like why would it work for somebody else? And again back to our industry the minimum expectation is

excellence. Most people's safety they have they like to put this the the thing

we we want zero incidents, right? So why why is that acceptable for that but not

for the health side people's mindset right? So, um, when I started figuring out 988's not answer working, people

aren't using EAPs, we got to get ahead of that place where

they need to call a crisis, right? Uh, and and not everything's easy, right? So, uh, when I when I started learning

more about 98 or not 98, but the EAPs, I learned that I I partnered with a group,

uh, they're uh, EAP group. They're called UNIAP. Um

the owner told me that 90% of their calls are mental health related or um

substance use related. Now of the mental health side of it, he said over 50% of

those calls related to family crisises, meaning someone who needed spousal u is

having a spousal issue and wanted to get counseling. Uh one that really caught me off guard was um people who have

autistic children. he has a part that helps I have two brothers that have autistic children that is hard right so

resources for that um the other is financial instability

uh elderly care is another one and then also child care like child that needs services that was over 50% of their call

so I was like holy cow man like why why can't we get people to use these right

so um I was like how can I get people to start getting help before we get to the

crisis So, first thing I wanted to do is put put the ally code together. I wanted to get

people to learn about the 14 mindset risk. And then the ally code is a a way

of getting people to talk to other human beings. So, I give coins away. See, I I

I showed them yesterday, right? Called commitment coins. I give coin we give coins to every single person, three of

them. One for themsel and two for an ally. I want them to recruit two people

that they could trust to have private personal conversations with and have per

have those type of conversations at least once a week. And then the other side of it is that once you start

building a relationship with somebody like my my my warrior club, we talk about everything. And what I found is

I'm not the only one that thinks it's the you know thinks when things happen in life that um you know sometimes I'm

like am I crazy? Am I the only feels this way? So when I'm talking to these other guys like that I feel the same way. I that happens to me like so you

just you start to figure out like you're not alone man like you're not crazy. I

I'm not the only one that thinks this way. Right. So um I I started the you we started the ally club to to promote that

Final challenge to the audience

because at the age of 30 I said that earlier people stop talking to other human beings that human connection

really helps resolve the conflict inside you know you got to work on people internally too right so um it's

promoting people to have someone that they can call and that they can talk to

weekly the other side is if those people during the call notice hey man you're not being normal

Let's meet up for coffee in the morning or let's meet after meet up at the job after work today and let's let's have

dinner. Let's let's let's talk. And then once you start talking to that person, that person can say, "Hey, like with my

buddies, I'm here for you, man. I love you. We're going to get through this together. I'm going to fly out and I'm

going to see you." Or, "Hey, we're going to be at the same event. Let's let's go a couple hours earlier so we can spend a

couple hours together." my my guys, we we'll sometimes do sunrise hikes in the

mountains just to go out and clear our head. It's like I know I'm there with someone, I'm not alone. It's just that

human connection, right? Um but the the pro the other side is if either one of those guys know I'm

struggling, they'll be the first one to say, "Hey, let's call the EAP together or let's let's go talk to this other

person that we're close to." Because like Chad's Chad's a priest as well, like a pastor, like I'm I'm big man in

faith. So like we'll pray together on stuff, you know what I mean? So I think that human connection thing is so big.

So that that's why we created the ally code. Um it my a lot of the companies

I've partnered with already are instilling this into their culture where it's not something they're asking you to

do. It's a core value of their culture. Like, hey, this is expectation and and the ally code. There's there's a couple

things that work with it. First and foremost is the human side of it, like building relationships with human that

you're talking to. So, you know, you're not alone and you you don't have to walk the walk alone. But the other side,

that's how you maintain yourself as a top performer. These companies want to have top performers working for them.

They recognize like, hey, if we're giving our people resources to maintain

their mindset, to be clear, to handle stuff, life stuff when it happens, because everyone's going to life isn't

perfect. They know it's they don't plan their pe people are robots. Um, so if

you're having that type of honor system, you're making it honorable to maintain

yourself as a top performer. you're making it um about your legacy. You

know, one of the guys that that kicked this off in his organization, he's like

this is a minimum expectation is you're man you're maintaining yourself as a top performer mindset wise. The only way

Where to find Justin

you're going to do that is keeping a clear head because if you're clear in your mind, you're not missing the other

risk that can actually physically hurt you. This is about building your legacy.

A legacy is about leaving behind what how you made people feel, not what you made them. Right? So if you're an elite

performer, elite leader, because you're you walk this walk and you talk about

being in being in EAP systems using it, um he he brought up in his like, "Hey,

I'm horrible with money. I will blow it as soon as I get it. I talked to the financial adviser through AP. I've

already saved $10,000." Right? So like modeling that change. He talks about that and that's a minimum expectation of

his leaders in his organization is you your your checkpoints are hey have you talked to your ally this week? Hey have

you met with your ally team? Are you having peer group meetings? Like he talks about it. It's walking the walk,

right? So, um, it's been awesome to see that grow legs because he says his

company is more connected now they've ever been. And he goes, "They easily lose five to eight people a year." He

goes, "We've lost one person this year and it's because they moved to freaking Australia." He goes, "You can't fix that." You know what I mean? Like, so I

just think it's it's, you know, I talk about it a lot. You want to be a top magnet for top performers, top talent in

the industry, you got to connect with people with their heart. And if you're doing that through a program like this,

it's part of their core value. You got to you got to connect with people, help them maintain their mindset, maintain

what's in their heart inside. Uh Josh and I call it heart home biz. You take

care of your heart first, take care of home first, all the biz stuff works out, right? So, uh we we talk about this a

lot, but that's that's that program. Um, it's been awesome, man. Uh, to see because, uh, I put it in a structured

format so that people can learn learn from it. Uh, they can take it home and read it and be like, "This makes sense.

This this this identifies with me cuz I'm just a human being working, man. Like, I just don't I just want people to

go to work and not have to feel like they got to be miserable through life, man. Just like try to enjoy yourself a little bit, you know?"

Justin, I I love that so much. Just on a personal note for me, uh, in co, there

were a few dads in my neighborhood. Our kids went to school together. We're like, man, we we need we just need a

group where we can get together on a consistent basis. And so, it's 10 of us and every Tuesday we

meet from 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. Uh, read the scriptures for 30 minutes, just

check in with each other and uh, and yeah, we're just there for each other. And if there was anything that I ever

needed, I could call each one of those people and uh and reach out to them. And what was fascinating is after we kicked

off that group, other men started to hear about it. And so they're like, "Hey, can we start up another one?" And

so the next morning, Wednesday morning, I'm like, "Hey, I'll just spend like 3 months help you guys get this kicked

off." So it was another 10 guys. And then another 10 guys wanted to start. So, another guy from the Tuesday group

started on Thursday, and I'm two years into now doing it every Tuesday and

Wednesday, and I've got 22 guys, and uh one of the other guys leads another

group. So, it's like 30 dads that that meet on a consistent basis. And it's just been

uh such a joy. And I just realized how important it is to walk with other men

and to have that resource outside of our families. and it makes us all stronger uh leaders in our community, in our

businesses, and in our families. And so, yeah, I just want to re reiterate, I think you're so on the right path with

that and uh thank you for helping to facilitate uh a structure so that um

people can be in community and and have that um those allies. I want to get

challenged. I get challenged by people sometimes like this thing really works

when you put it in a pen and paper, right? So, like I I love what you just said about your group. So, Kevin, like

so that group that Josh has been running, it's called Safety Social. He started that in on April 2nd of 2020.

Still running hard. We've been doing it every week ever since. And then I started SRS, which is safety for safety.

It's safety professionals. We we meet uh the first or the third Friday of every month. Uh or yeah, we met last Friday.

So yeah, the second Friday uh of every month. Um and then I I also created a

group called Rough Edges. Um we we just met yesterday. It's usually the first Thursday of every month at 1:00. Um and

I I invite leaders to share lessons learned. Doesn't have to be like big. It

like hey this is a lesson I learned. Uh because vulnerable leadership helps others learn, right? So that 5% of the

industry that does teach people but it's mostly seat seauite people. I wanted other individuals to have opportunities

to learn from other leaders right. So um we had 14 people on that call yesterday

and it's free. is something that people can just, you know, randomly join. And I have usually a guest speaker

that's, you know, got got some pretty good experience from. And then I also even have some younger guys like it's so

fun because like we all learn from each other. It's so great. But, uh, the greatest point to it that I love is, uh,

and kind of relates to what you just said is every one of these guys know that they

we all like to feel comfortable a little bit in what we do. like when we're going to places and doing things as leaders,

but every one of these guys know that all they all they got to do is like make a phone call and they got 20 20 buds

that they can all get together and talk about something or like me like if if I'm gone one week I know that I have a

local guy that can come like if something happens at my house like hey my heater stopped working. Hey Bill, can

you go by my house? Like so it's just nice to know like you kind of have backup you know it's

it's it's always good to know you have backup. Absolutely. I want to double back on one of the things that you

mentioned. You gave a statistic uh with a survey that you took of over 3,000

employees who said that I think you said 76% of them didn't trust their leader

because they didn't feel like they had enough experience. I was recently talking to an operational leader and and

he said that one of his biggest struggles is you know he he was pretty good at what he did uh from a technical

standpoint and the path to grow within his organization was to move into leadership but he was like I had zero

leadership training and so he's like good technically communication leadership that was an area that I just

wasn't prepared for and he reflected on the fact that, you know, he felt really

self-conscious about that and and realized that he he lacked in certain areas. And then he started to move into

like self-p protection mode and just started treating people not how he would

have normally treated people because he was acting out of fear and he was leading out of fear and he he realized

that he just had a leadership gap and a communication gap and that's all it was. And once he actually went down the path

of pursuing some education and um training and got a coach to help him with that, it totally transformed him as

a leader because he was no longer leading out of fear. And I I would imagine that that's maybe a little bit

behind that stat that you just referenced. And so, uh, if somebody, you know, who may be listening to this kind

of resonates with that story and feels like, man, I that's what I need. I I

need more leadership training. I need resources. How could the mission mindset

uh framework in the the code series really help them grow their leadership

so that they could feel more confident from the communication and leading with confidence?

One of the biggest in my opinion, so the 14 mindset risk um I'm real I'm real

focused on control what you control, right? And uh of the 14 mindset risks,

there's a few that I focused on with with mindset mission mindset and one of

the number ones were skill uh skills gaps. Uh skill gaps you just described

it that is what happened to that individual is so common because for one

they're not going to turn down a promotion. to um are they going to be honest with their su with the supervisor

saying I'll take this promotion but I probably shouldn't because I don't have these skill gaps because I don't have that experience level. So, so no, you

know, so that's this is very common and one of the main reasons I actually created mission mindset like so the code

series um to me it's it's a it's a fundamental

approach to giving people an opportunity to to just hear and learn and look at

things in a subjective manner. Right? So I tell everybody in leadership the first

and foremost process before you become a leader um is to understand that there's

only one in 49 people are natural leaders. So that means 48 individuals are not natural leaders, right? So um

some have it, some don't, right? So it's an no one's expectation should be that

you're going to be perfect first and foremost. So I tell everybody that you got to someone just doesn't hand you a

piece of paper and you're a leader. You're kind of be constantly learning, right? So, um, the code series,

it's it's base foundational stuff to know to help you understand that not my

way is not perfect. My friend Josh's way isn't perfect. Everybody is our own individual human being. We all have

different DNA. We all different things that we were taught as kids. We all were brought up different really, right? So,

the code series just gives a foundational approach to it. But if I was that if I if someone came to me and

said, "Hey, I have no leadership skills. I'm in this role. I need some help." The first and

foremost, number one thing I'd ask them to do is figure out how do they operate

as a human being? How do they see things? Because as a leader, something that I stick to my guns with big and

heavy right now is I lead in a manner of trying to do what I think is the right

thing for people. Not just me, but people, the people side of it, right? So, um it's really easy to get committed

to a name on a check or uh I I work for Milwaukee Tool or Canest and I'm doing

what's best for the company. Well, listen, man. 95% of the time people

think ask their people to do what they think is right for them. So, um, you got you got to figure out how you're wired,

but then you also got to figure out, um, where your weaknesses are, right? So, um, most people don't do good speaking

in front of other human beings at first. They got to practice that, right? So, start small before you go big. Um, some

people don't get that opportunity. So, multiple times practicing. But um

you know I I was I got to I got to watch um a guy present on a Harvard study he

did on um just to to share with you from the age the life expectancy of the human

being is 90 years old in the United States of America. So he took it from the age of 18 to 90 how people will

spend their time in months. There's 1080 months in your life. What he what he

found is each each like I think it was like 360 months will be f of your life sleeping

and then 260 uh working and then 60 driving you know on down the line where

you got to there was 395 months left of open space and he said unfortunately the

average 90 or 18year-old will spend 93% of that time behind the screen.

So why I'm what I'm s getting at is like I always teach these younger people coming up how much screen time are you

using and it's really easy especially on an iPhone to look the average person's 5 to eight hours a

day depending on you know do they ride a train to work you know all that good stuff right so um could you spend that

time looking at capacity adding value to your leadership skills right so uh what

I say is I watch a lot of Simon SIC. He has a lot of really good points.

Um, I listen to podcasts a lot, educational. Um, I try not to listen to

all the emotional ones or the gloom and gloom or all that stuff because it's not adding value to my leadership skills.

Uh, but again, back to everyone is different. Find your identity. Find what

works and how you learn. Um, one of the reasons I wrote the the code series the

way I did, there is not one shoe fits all in this

space. Whether it's mental mindset, uh, performance, uh, leadership, you have to

create content that serves a huge, uh, audience. But I tell people all the

time, find what find what works for you and then use that to educate yourself,

whether it's speaking skills, writing skills, um learning how to map stuff out

capacity-wise, uh understanding the arena more. Uh but number one, you got to understand how

you're wired. That contextual uh intelligence, understand that um how how

does that communicate with your emotional intelligence? One of my big biggest weaknesses uh that I learned

when I first got married was I thought I was great at masking my emotions on how

something was impacting me. I really was horrible at it. I didn't know that. So

if you're in a leadership role and something happens and you're showing emotionally that this is the end of the

world kind of mindset, that's how your people are going to respond, right? So you got to learn how to control your

emotions, control your mindset. So that takes practice. The only way you're going to be able to do that is

understand the contextual intelligence process you have and then have a process mentally that you can follow again

routine right so that's what I would try to explain to people is it

your time that you're wasting scrolling utilize that to add value to learn and it could be from whoever you identify

whether it's Jaco Willink Mike Celli um you know any any of those guy I identify

with those guys specifically uh because of my Marine Corps background. Uh my father was in the Marines as well. So

like that's what works for me. Simon works for a lot of other people. Like I I tell people sometimes um take a course

at Harvard Business School online. They have nine and eightweek courses that you can learn. I took organizational

leadership. I've taken strategy, statistical management, all of it through it. I learned a lot from all of

them. But I did it on my time. Like I started I would start 5:00 a.m. in the

morning and go to 7:00 a.m. It was 2 hours at a time a day. They only require 6 hours a week and it was a

self-learned. So like there's all types that identified real well with me. Uh six six

sigma uh black belt works for some people. I mean, just try to figure out what works for you and then utilize that

as a way to approach it because um again, it's not a one shoe fits all kind

of deal. Same with suicide prevention. I try to explain that to everybody is like it's not one thing that's going to work.

You got to have multiple things. So that that's what advice I'd give. Thank you so much. Uh Justin, this has

been just a fantastic conversation. and I so appreciate your honesty and transparency about um your journey and I

think that it's really empowering to a lot of other people. Is there any are there any other final thoughts you'd like to leave our listeners and then how

can they find you? Um yeah, so I'm real easily found on

LinkedIn. Um you can just look up Justin Asbow. I'm the only one. Uh my last name is A, Z as in zebra, B as in boy, I as

in India, and then two L's is in Lima. Uh or you can go to uh www.mmissionmindsetus.org.

Uh and that's my website and my contact information is there. Um but if I could

leave it with any uh a last some last stuff with anybody like a last message.

Um number one is just remember we're all human beings. We're imperfect. Um we we

work and live in a world of construction where the minimum expectation is

excellence. I try to remind people that a lot. Um that's a that's a hard line to

follow. So if you want to make out like nothing impacts you as a human being or

you're you're made of stone and you don't have feelings, I want to leave you a little message for you to tell you.

Um, we all know the truth. Uh, so I want to challenge everybody that's listening,

take some time, make a commitment to yourself. It's what I call mindset maintenance. Create a daily routine. You

all earn at least one hour a day of mental currency, mindset currency.

Cherish that one hour and spend it maintaining yourself. And then the last

thing I want to challenge everybody to is there's two things. We all have

crisis plans. When things go wrong for stuff at work, create a crisis plan for

yourself when something goes wrong because it's not a matter of if it's when something's going to happen in

life. It's inevitable. You know, car wreck, uh lose your job, you know, your

mom gets sick, what something's going to happen. Have a crisis contingency plan and maintaining yourself mentally. And

then the last thing I always tell everybody, if we all worked really hard in this life to create a legacy that we

leave behind, a legacy that we would allow our own child to work in, we're

winning. So I challenge everybody that like we had to change the industry into an industry where I would allow my

daughter to work in. And that's what I'm doing today with Mission Mindset. Justin, this has been so great. Thank

you so much. That was a definitely a mic drop. So, thank you so much for being on the Work Ready podcast. Uh, we look

forward to continuing the conversation. Keep up the good work and thank you for joining us today, everyone. Uh, until

next time, this is the Work Ready Podcast. Thanks so much.