The Industrial Athlete's Edge: Why Your PPE Needs to Perform, Not Just Protect

Simon Levin | DragonWear

Dr. Kevin Rindal | Vimocity

Performance clothing is something every worker wears, every leader issues, and almost no one truly understands.

I think one of the things that we need to do first and foremost, is people need to treat this just like they would treat any other tools.

Today, DragonWear's Simon Levin explains why PPE work.

Wear isn't just a box to check, it's how you gain a performance edge that directly affects your focus, your endurance, and your safety. Because you know, once you start to feel uncomfortable, that's where accidents begin to happen because you're not completely concentrated and aware discomfort is unsafe.

This is the WorkReady podcast

Simon Levin has built and manufactured some of the most technically advanced performance apparel in the world. What were some of the advancements that you saw in fabric development over the course of your career? I mean, now the fabrics are unbelievable compared to where they were, you know, 20 or 30 years ago.

But what were some of the major accomplishments that you saw? I would say that, you know, lighter is better, so the yarns got thinner the way fabrics were knitted. The technology around developing yarns that could move moisture away from the skin and roll it to the face and actually end up wicking more.

And in the technical outerwear arena, which is being influenced right now in the workwear, which is why we're having this conversation, is uh, it was really all about your first layer, like what was being worn next to skin, and then. When you look at the breathability of shells on the outside, you know, before if you, if, if you cast your mind back, having a waterproof, uh, shell on the outside was usually something that didn't really breathe.

People often think that it's, it's the fabric that performs, but a lot of the time it's a membrane that's in between the fabrics that are glued to it, and so they just ended up being a lot more breathability in the, in the waterproof space. And that really changed the whole world's focus too, because now you had performance that was next to the skin where you were able to have performance move the moisture and then you still had an outer shell. And rather than when all the moisture was being whit away from your body, it still stuck there in the middle. It still had the opportunity to actually move through every layer and end up coming to the very top layer. So all in all, as an athlete, someone out there hiking and sweating and moving you now I had a real complete capsule of layered product that was out able to perform like really diligently.

It seems like one of the other components is just the mobility of the fabric as well. I mean, the fabric didn't impede movement and that's why athletes appreciated it so much is that they could have that wicking capability, but it never, uh, hindered any of their movement or their performance. I mean, knit fabrics have come a long way, come a really long way.

You know, when people wanted something that was hardy and could stand up to the rigors of the, the heavy elements, you know, woven fabrics were very much, uh, in the forefront and knit fabrics evolved so much more in performance. So, you know, you had things like Lycra that became real part of the, the, the makeup of how people put actual fabrics together, which then gave them the four-way stretch and the movement, which makes a huge difference.

When you first started looking into the industrial space, uh, what, what were some of the gaps that you saw and how the clothing was manufactured, uh, for the worker to wear? You know, fundamentally I just felt like. When we were, when we were building product for these technical outerwear brands, someone like Cabelas who would be making product that was private label and, you know, their, their end user was predominantly hunters.

And one of the things that we found was, you know, hunters would go out there in very cold temperatures and sit in a, a tree stand and layer themselves up. But the first thing they would have next to their skin was that cotton underwear. And they wouldn't really spend money on their clothing, but while they're sitting in that tree stand, they've got that very expensive firearm, whatever that was with an A TV.

And once they, once they killed something, they had all of the technology to, to slice and dice and package and put this thing on tops and get it out of there. And all of the money was spent on everything but clothing. And then slowly but surely, the hunters started to become very educated and they started to understand that you need to spend money on your clothing, just like you would spend money on everything you'd used to hunt.

And when I saw that, I. When I got out of the manufacturing side and looked at the future, I was looking at those people out there that today we are calling them, and this is something that you guys are, are a huge proponent of advancing the conversation of an industrial athlete. You know, when people go out there and they, they wear all of this technical clothing because they're in, in the elements doing something recreationally.

They're not wearing their clothing eight hours a day, seven days a week. There are people out there who are in the same elements, just like you'd be climbing a mountain in the winter dealing with rain, sleet, and snow, or in the summertime dealing with some serious heavy heat, but no one is taking care of them, and so they didn't have the technology available to them in fire retardant fabrics.

That people who were doing recreational sports in order to protect themselves in the elements actually had for themselves. So I thought that we should be taking care of those people who spend more time outside in the elements than anybody else would. And it seems like that was the fundamental shift because a lot of industrial athletes are hunters and so they, they see all these advancements in the clothing technology that they have When they're out there hunting and you're moving and you're hiking you, you know, you're exerting yourself.

And I would imagine that they'd go to work and they'd think. Why, why are my jeans so uncomfortable? And of course they have to wear the FR or AR rated clothing. So when did you start to see that shift of the industrial athletes having that fire retardant clothing start to become much more performance wear?

Yeah. You know, I don't know. I don't know that I could answer that a hundred percent except to say, I think two things happened technology wise. I think the technology began to advance where fabric manufacturers and developers started looking at the market, started to open up, and I think a lot of what, what opened up the market was.

We're, we're in that transitional phase where we have a large part of the population that are aging out. So we have a lot of people who still had the conversation that heavier is better, or I can wear my woolly sweater and that's okay. That's all I need. And yeah, you know, that's what they grew up with.

So that's what they knew. You know, behaviorally, that's what they wore. But I think as the younger generation and the younger people are starting to, to broach the utility industry and the mining and the oil and gas environments. Social media is exposing so much more in the world of information and, and you've got brands like Lululemon and Art Alteryx and Patagonia that, you know, they're synonymous for appealing to all ages and the younger age group as well.

So I think in the technical idea, we space where people on a fashion basis, someone like Art Alteryx really impacted the market because even if you weren't a technical athlete. Wearing a Alteryx actually said, I either wanna be or I look good in it, or it actually works for me and I don't have to be a massive athlete.

If I want to go skiing and I want performance, it's there for me. So I think they started to transform the market and people started to get influenced. Animosity is more than trade. It's a safety and readiness platform, trusted by companies to keep their field professionals strong, healthy, and ready for the job.

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Let's talk about ar you, you mentioned a couple words there. We've talked about ar fr gear, uh, you mentioned inherent fabrics. Can you talk about the reason why, you know, for people who don't, uh, know, why is it so important to have that FR ar rated gear? And then what does inherent, um, versus coated fabric mean in that context?

So, you know, I mean, we can talk about, when we say fr, we could talk about fabrics that have retardant properties, which could mean anything. But when we talk about ar, we're talking about arc rated, which is very utility focused, or we're talking about flash rated, which is very specific to your oil and gas or mining industries.

So the, the, the, the difference between the two is when you get an inherent fabric, it in, it is using yarns that are inherently fire retardant, you know? Um. You have yarns. I, I mean, I don't wanna get into it, into too much of a technical environment, but the basic thing is, is that you, you have things like cotton, which is very highly used in the environment, and in order to render cotton, um, arc rated or flash rated, or even to be retardant, it has to get treated with a chemical.

And something that is inherent is not treated with a chemical. It actually has fibers that are inherently upgraded or flash rated. So. As an example, there's a, a yarn called mono acrylic. So mono acrylic is in the inherent space, is one of the most influential yarns. It's actually a very interesting yarn where it actually uses a precious metal called antimony.

An antimony. Actually, when you, when you look at what it does, it actually absorbs oxygen. It actually takes oxygen out of the environment that. Any fire could actually breathe in. So fire can't breathe in an, in a non oxygenated environment. So that's something that is inherent, that acts that way without it being treated as a chemical.

So if you, if you had a choice, you know, there's a lot of conversation in the market where people are really worried about what you're wearing next to your skin. And, you know, PFAS is a conversation that's being beginning to permeate. Out there in the large market space where we're trying to eradicate chemicals next to the skin.

So at the end of the day, you've got an inherent fabric that will never lose its fire, retardancy, because the yarns will never lose its own properties. There are, there's a conversation out there, and who knows how true or not true it is. It's very hard to prove or disprove anything. But at the end of the day, people are.

Wondering whether a treated environment can actually withstand and stay treated over, you know, multiple washes and laundering when you're laundering at high heat, et cetera, et cetera. What is the actual longevity? It's hard to say. And so with something that's inherently fire resistant or fire has that fire retardant properties, what word.

Hoping to achieve through that is that if somebody is exposed to a fire or an arc blast, uh, they're not gonna catch on fire because those fire or those fabrics are non-combustible. What about fabrics like cotton or synthetic fibers and how can that be dangerous? Especially when you're wearing like maybe a, a synthetic undershirt underneath something that even may be fr on the outside.

It's a good question. You know, when you say synthetic, let's just take polyester for instance. Polyester. If that melts, it'll wrap around you, like shrink wrap. So it's a concern if anybody's out there in a, in a safety environment and you are wearing, uh, arc or flash rated or fr clothing on the outside, but you're wearing polyester next to your skin.

You know, it doesn't mean because you're wearing rated clothing that you're not going to experience any heat next to your skin. So if you're in a four or 5,000 degree flash or rated, and you are wearing polyester next to your skin, even if you're wearing rated clothing, that thing's going to melt. That is a safety hazard that is very dangerous on the, on the.

When you talked about cotton, you know, cotton's not going to react the same way as polyester or a synthetic fabric would. But what one has to be aware of is that cotton is a faab fabric that absorbs moisture. So one of the things that we care about in the world of performance is. We want your next to skin garment to be moving moisture away from your skin as much as possible.

And there's been testing done in the laboratory where even if you are wearing operated clothing. You are wearing a cotton T-shirt underneath and your cotton T-shirt is absorbing moisture because you're perspiring in the working environment. When you are in a flashover, an arc flash with that kind of heat, all of the moisture next to your skin is going to boil, and if water boils, it turns to steam.

Steam burns are a safety hazard as well, so you wanna be conscious about what you're wearing next to your skin because we want our skin to be as dry as possible because regardless of the protection that you have, if there's moisture next to your skin, that's going to be a hazard. I wanna talk about Dragon wear for a second.

I'm actually wearing my, uh, my dragon wear Shirt. Shirt. Yes. Let's talk about our dragon wear for a second. Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, like I do a lot of endurance, um, athletics, I do triathlons and, uh, trail running. This is hands down my favorite shirt to run in. Yes. Um, for multiple reasons from a, um. Moisture wicking capability.

It does phenomenal. It's so stretchy. It's, it's just comfortable to wear. Um, and then it also has a UPF of 50 plus. And so then I'm also, you know, protecting myself from the sun. Can you tell me a little bit more about this particular, uh, shirt and it's completely made out of inherently fr, uh, rated fabric and so there's no chemicals in it.

I'd like to learn more about that and share that with our audience. So you are, you are particularly talking about one of the our lines that we call our pro dry tech. It's the only fabric that has five yarns in it. And it's very, very lightweight. We don't wanna tell you what all the yarns are because that's a trade secret.

So we have to tell you, we'd have to, you know, put you out back and send you out to pasture. But it, we were at actually a, a, a rodeo and we had, um, a gentleman who's been a lineman for, you know, over 25 years, I don't know exactly how many years, but he came to us and he said, you know, I suspect I have skin cancer.

And I suspect that, um. I got skin cancer from wearing chemical treated clothing and from putting sunscreen on myself every single day because he was in California and he came to us and he said, I'm just, I just wish someone could create something where. I could wear something that was much lighter, that I didn't feel the heat every single day and sweat in it like crazy and feel clammy and uncomfortable, but could also protect me from the sun.

And so we developed this very lightweight Pro-D dry tech fabric, which, uh, is a category two fabric, meaning that the amount of energy that it could absorb is cat two, is 8.7 cal. The calorie rating is enough that in the world of safety risk for the minimum basic that you should be wearing on a daily basis, it covers the gamut on that.

And it is inherently wicking and moisture transfer, meaning it's designed to actually move the moisture away from your skin and push it to the face of the fabric. And you know, wicking is not just the transference of moisture away from your body to the face of a fabric Wicking is really about how much the moisture on the fabric spreads on the face.

So the faster we can make it spread. The smaller we can make those water molecules, the faster our body heat can dry out the moisture that's on our skin and it's continually doing that, which would make us more comfortable and less clammy because you know, once you feel all clammy and you start to feel uncomfortable, that's where accidents begin to happen because you're not completely concentrated and aware.

And then. We also have a silver thread, micro, um, technology in it where it's bacteria is what causes body odor and bacteria hates silver. So we have some silver thread technology. So you have all of these really lightweight, four-way stretch, inherently wicking moisture transfer, no chemicals, inherently retardant, and um, it's just, it, it does the job.

It was something that. I think we only sold like 20,000 units five years ago, and today we're selling about 175,000 units a year. It speaks for itself. Yeah, it does. And what I love about Drag Moore, your, I think your motto is the clothes you live in. Uh, yeah. Or something along those lines. And Yes, what is interesting is, I mean.

I'm someone who doesn't like to be hot, and so I pretty much am always in a short sleeve shirt, but if I go out for a run, even if it's 80 degrees out, I'll still choose a long sleeve shirt because I know that I have the sun protection and I, it just wicks out moisture away. It's, it's pretty amazing. And the, the mobility that I have, it, there's no impedance in my movement.

It, it is just such a light fabric. So I think you guys nailed it when it came to this particular shirt. Yeah, I agree. If I say so myself, uh, I wanna double down on what you just said about the safety aspect of wearing comfortable high performing gear. Because, uh, when I talk to people out in the field, what they'll say is that, you know, if they're experiencing heat, cold, uh, anything like that, it's gonna start to be.

Something that distracts 'em. So at the back of their mind, they have some type of distraction that's not causing them to be fully present on the work that they're doing. Have you heard anecdotally, or what is your thought around, um, how high performing gear can actually help people be safer beyond just the protective aspects of, of the clothing?

Yeah. You know, I'm. Uh, Kevin, I'm glad you asked that question 'cause I gotta tell you nothing I, I, I am, there's nothing I'm more passionate about than this topic because when you think about the work environment, you know, you could just think about utility workers who are working in very hot environments in all of the climates that we have, even here in North America, you know, in.

Arizona and Texas and California as your most basic places that, you know, are really hot, even even up here in Canada where it can get to 30 or 40 degrees. Um, and it's, it's it's linemen who work in those temperatures on the outside as well as you've got people in oil and gas and they all have to wear long sleeve and they all have to wear long pants.

And then you've got people in mining who are working underground in 40 degree heat that as soon as they start their day. They're going down a mine shaft with whatever it is they're wearing. And from the moment they get down there, they're down there for eight or 12 hours a day and they're sweating in an environment daily.

And there there's nothing I'm more passionate about than, than making a difference right there. And so you are. It's been proven that your body can regulate its core temperature more efficiently if it's dry, as opposed to it being wet. And so if I was going to suggest that anybody wears anything as a first garment, as their first line of defense for comfort and having something that's performance.

We would wanna be looking at what's next to your skin first. And unfortunately, you know, it's not that it's unfortunate, it's actually, it's just a question of economics. And you know, you can't throw that out the window. I mean, money is money and things cost. And so when you, when you look at what it costs to have a high performance piece that's next to your skin in the workwear world, it's an expensive proposition.

And so. I think for the longest time, this conversation hasn't come to the forefront and isn't at the forefront and isn't one of the most important conversations that we should be having around the safety because it's not just the comfort that we need to be looking at because discomfort is unsafe, unsafe from, as you said, the awareness and and where your state of mind is, but also.

In an arc flash or a flashover, you know, those are the environments where people could get burnt really badly and we should be looking at that. And it's totally understandable from an economics point of view that you would look at the bare minimum and places that actually, you know, looking at the cold for instance, it's never just one piece that a person needs to purchase for their employees.

It's multiple. So, and all of these pieces have to be washed. So, you know, I. I don't want it to land like nobody cares. I think they do. I don't think that they're aware enough and I don't think the boots on the ground have pushed the envelope enough. I think they're beginning to, I think what you are doing right now is making a difference.

I think we just have to get the conversation out there is that it doesn't take a lot, you know, just starting with next to skin can make a huge difference and that's where I'm up to. I'm not sure if that answered the question, but. No, it did. And I'm gonna dive deeper in that, uh, here in a second. But you said one thing that I think is, is really important, going back to the safety of, of, uh, in the role that, uh, being comfortable in clothing plays with that.

I hear a lot of people say that. If they're in uncomfortable clothes, even if they have rated gear, they aren't wearing it properly because it's uncomfortable. So they'll roll up their sleeves or they'll, you know, unbutton their shirt so that they have, uh, increased exposure. And so I have this huge passion of like, how do we.

Bring high performing gear to people so that they actually wear their PPE properly so that they can be safe. Um, when an event like that happens, how have you seen, you know, the performance gear in the FR world increase compliance? I mean, 'cause to me that seems like there's a huge ROI for a company if they issue gear to give people high quality gear so that that compliance happens.

Yeah. Um, you know. Like any major shift or any major move, nothing happens overnight. So I think, you know, the first place is going to be that there are people like you and people like I who have a commitment to turn out an outcome in the future and, and not be giving up about it. 'cause you know, change is not something that happens overnight.

That's the first thing. I think the second thing is, you know, when people have these. Intricate tools that they have to learn. Like you never, for instance, let's just take a an example. You know, someone down a mine or someone on a, on an oil and gas site, you don't just give someone who's never used a gas detection device before and say, clip that on Happy birthday.

Away you go. You know, you know that the dangers of being in those kind of environments have have had outcomes that have really had people. End up dying or, you know, that it's, it's a real safety concern that people are so well aware of right now that no one puts on a gas detection for the first time without them really being taught a hundred percent on how to wear it.

And so I think one of the things that we need to do first and foremost is, is people need to treat this conversation. Just like they would treat any other tools. There are specific ways that you lay a pro product. There are specific products that actually do things better than others, and I think that there just has to be an education.

And I think that's where Dragon wear and that's what I love about this company. And that's where we start. I think all of us have a duty to actually let people know. That there is advancements in technology and advancements in fabrics, and the difference that they make, and we actually have to show it, and something that we do as a company is, I don't even tell people when I say to them, would you like to, you know, look at this as a, as a product that can make a difference.

I actually just give them the product for free and let them just try it themselves. It's very, I, I, I have never had anybody come back and say, what a load of this doesn't make any sense at all. And then when people come to me and say, wow, I had no idea. You know, it's just our job to take the ROI on that because wow, I had no idea.

Costs money. You know, when you make a garment that's an inherent garment. Those fabrics are being built and engineered. It's not something that just grows and gets knitted and and gets made. There's technology behind that and technology costs money, and we need to let people understand that the difference that it makes in the, the lives that it can save heat stress is a massive issue right now in the work way world, and we need to be.

Having people understand that there are items like clothing and like, you know, there's ice vests and there's cooling and there's fans, and there's also, we need to throw everything we can at it because as the working environment begins to age out and the younger generation is looking at where they want to go, they're getting wiser and smarter.

I don't know why people say the younger generation aren't committed to working or aren't as aware. They're more committed and more aware than any generation has been. And so they're going to be more of a demand about what makes a difference for them. And if we are open and awake and we're listening, clothing is going to make a difference.

Or how you take care of people just in general is going to make a huge difference into why someone chooses you as a company to come and spend their livelihood at. Absolutely. And I think you, you nailed it there. 'cause this is my shared passion. I just feel, I spent my entire career working with professional athletes.

They're, they spare no expense when it comes to their performance. And you know what, they're investing in their body, what they're investing in, their training, their gear so that they can perform at that highest level. And I always find it ironic, you know, you go to an operations basin. The entire parking lot is full of these, you know, beautiful trucks.

And yet you walk in and you look at, uh, you know, the food that people are eating and the way that they are investing in their health and their body. Uh, and that's their, their greatest asset. Their, their body is their ability to continue to work and provide for their family, um, provide for their future and.

They would never think about putting crappy gas into the their vehicle. And yet when it comes to the body there, there, there has to be this mind shift. And I think that this encompasses all these different topics. I mean, the clothing that we wear so that we can be safe, so that we can have our head in the game so that we can thermoregulate properly.

All those things, you know. Are worth investing in. And, uh, and, and so I think that's such an important, um, topic about that. And, you know, from a sports medicine standpoint. We always talk about thermo regulation is, is one of the most important things, and the body is insane when it comes to the window that it likes to keep our body temperature at.

And it will do, I mean, pretty amazing things just to maintain that, uh, that body temperature within one to two degrees Fahrenheit. I mean, it starts to shut down blood vessels, you know, bring blood to the core. If we get too cold, we'll start to shiver. All these different things 'cause the body is so focused on, um, that temperature regulation.

So maybe you could again, explain, uh, in greater detail to that importance of pulling the moisture away from the skin, uh, as part of that cooling mechanism. And then why that's also important for heat retention and relate that to how people should think about layering, um, over the course of the day.

Because layering fabrics is probably one of the most important things in thermal regulation when it comes to toric. When you think about thermal regulation, you think about warmth that might show up. That might be the first thought. But, you know, at this time of year, and we see what's happening in the world and how our winters are so extreme, you know, layering is.

Is also really, really important in the wintertime. And, uh, I, I use an analogy because, you know, mother nature actually, she has shown us exactly how to do it. It's not something we have to learn. And what I mean by that is if I give you the example of geese in the wintertime. You can be out there and it can be blowing minus 10 degrees and a 10 mile an hour wind, and you go past a frozen lake and there's a little bit of the lake that's not frozen and their yeast sitting on there.

Yes, they've tucked their be into their feathers, into their wings, but how is it that they can stay out there in the cold like that? And when you look at it, even though they have a 4% higher body rate, I mean body temperature than we do. If you, if you look at the, the feathers and how they're layered right next to their skin, they have those beautiful, soft little fluffy plumes.

You know, when we have a down jacket and you look at what a down jacket has, that's a, a really good down. It's those feathers that are in there. Then after those plumes become this next layer of soft feathers that are a little heavier than the plumes that are next to skin, and then their third layer is that has a little layer of oil on the top of it, which are even a little bit more denser.

And when you put those different layers together and you think about that extra body heat that comes off their body lives in that little pocket of plumes. Where it actually starts to insulate. And then the second layer of feathers that actually traps the heat in there. So in between the plumes and the feathers, you have a tiny little gap, and that's where the heat lives.

And then you have the third layer, which has the wind resistance because of the oil and stops, the rain and the snow and the sleet getting in there. You have these little gaps in between these little layers that allow all of the thermal regulation from the body to be trapped in there. And that's what keeps them warm.

Are you with me so far? Does that make sense? Absolutely. This is such a fascinating example. Yeah. And so now just think about when you're layering clothing. If it's important to answer your question, why it's important that our body regulates its core temperature as much as possible and tries to be as dry as possible as we want to do anything we can to make sure that our body's giving off as much heat as possible, specifically in the wintertime.

And when it's doing that, we wanna layer up with clothes that actually, if we're going to be perspiring a little bit, we wanna move the moisture away for the skin just like we would in the summertime, because whatever moisture is next to our skin is going to get impacted by the temperature on the outside.

So if it's freezing cold outside and you've got three layers of clothing on, but you're exerting yourself because you're climbing a pole or you're carrying a bunch of tools. Or you're hiking into an area and you're perspiring, regardless of how many layers, the moisture that's next to your skin's gonna get cold.

And then what people do is we go, well, heavier has to be warmer, so we'll add another layer. And a very common complaint in the work where world is, we're all wearing such heavy gear in so many layers. They feel like a Michelin man and they're very restricted and they're not comfortable. As much as in the summertime, they're all wearing one layer, but the one layer isn't performance enough or really lightweight enough or technical enough.

It's, it's made up of a fabric that perhaps absorbs all of the moisture and still the heat on the outside. Is impacting how dense the moisture is next to their skin, even if they're perspiring. So the body is perspiring and working really hard, and we're not doing anything to actually take that moisture away so it can keep doing what it's doing to cool you.

Or in the wintertime it's just perspiring, and then all of a sudden you're shivering in your cold because you're not worrying about what's next to skin first. So we wanna make sure we're putting technology on your skin to regulate your core temperature by keeping you as dry as possible in both extremes.

That's so helpful. And let's actually break this down. Uh, so we'll talk about cold first and then we'll talk about heat second. So yeah, what is the checklist that people should go through when they're making decisions on what clothes they should wear? The different layers that they should think about.

So let's talk about top, bottom and even socks. And then what should people pack in a dry clothes bag have in their cab when they know they're gonna be working in, in cold conditions so that they have, uh, backup clothes that they can, um, turn to if, if they do get too. What? Yeah. So, you know, I wanna, I wanna preface this conversation by saying, you know, in my world.

There's no, there's no taking down any fabric that's out there at all because you know, every fabric has its place. It's all exists for some particular reason, and just some will work better than others. And so if anything, I would say your first place to start would be wear something next to your skin that is a performance piece that won't absorb moisture.

Obviously don't wear a non FR garment. Obviously don't wear polyester as much as possible. I would prefer it and just myself personally. If you didn't wear something that was cotton or something that was treated, but you know, it has its place so. As I said before, economics is something that you really have to be concerned about.

But if you are going to be doing something, if you're going to be wearing cotton next to your skin, then pack an extra, an extra set. So if you're out there and you get caught in the elements, or if you're gonna be working all day and at the end of your day, or even half through halfway through your day, you need to change up on something, have an extra set of clothing, actually get a bag and make sure, you know, in the wintertime.

Pack those extra socks, get an extra beanie, get an extra, shell have two on you. Even if you're not carrying it with you, leave it in the truck. You don't know what's going to happen. And in the summertime, I would definitely take two T-shirts with you, and at least during the course of the day, I would change out.

Um. You, you've made mention of this and you, you, uh, are big proponents of this and supported and done articles with it. Obviously in the heat, you want to be hydrating yourself as much as possible. That's going to be a key element. And then in the wintertime, in the wintertime. You want to be wearing as as little layers as you possibly can, but whatever layers you are going to wear, try and wear the layers that are really going to make sense.

So if you're going to be wearing something that's performance next to your skin, your next layer would be insulating layer. So something that's slightly heavier, something that's fleece, something that's lightweight, not really very heavy. And then your third layer would be your shell. That would be waterproof and windproof.

You do want to be thinking about the wind. Wind can impact you at a, something that, as example is, you know, minus five degrees in the wintertime and you're up in a bucket. If it starts to get windy and it's a 10 mile an hour wind, you could be at 3, 4, 5 degrees colder in a matter of an instant. So very important that you have in your cachet.

Something that's wind resistant and water resistant, as well as your extremities. You know when your body is going to take care of itself. Why your fingers and toes get cold First is because when the body's gonna protect itself, it's going to protect its organs first. So the extremities will be where you'll get less blood flow.

So what you wanna do is you wanna really make sure that you're protecting your extremities as well. So, gloves, socks, and beanies. You could never have, uh, too many in your bag. And having two sets of that as well, just prepare yourself. No, no different than if you were an athlete. Let's talk about headwear and, uh, footwear as well.

'cause yeah, those are two areas, uh, you know, feet that are uncomfortable, like you said. Uh, that's gonna be one of the first places that if you're, you have cold exposure, that's gonna be the. First, uh, spot that you start to feel numbness and tingling, but also, um, you know, we sweat a lot through our feet as well.

So how should people think about, um, foot Yeah. Socks and, and beanies, I guess would be the question to ask. Yeah. Well again, you know, one of the things about about footwear is it's very hard for someone to. Uh, take all of the sweating that happens in their feet and move it somewhere other than that small encapsulated environment that you're in.

So it's not like you can move moisture and end up having your feet be completely dry, but rather than wearing cotton socks that are really absorbent, try and wear something like merino wool. Merino is something that is inherently, it has some FFR properties, but inherently it moves moisture as well. So I would definitely really spend the money on having a performance soc and Marina Wool does the job the best.

And never expect that you could, you know, wear a sock and that your feet will never experience some kind of moisture. Because, just think about it, there's not a lot of places you can go and we wanna do everything we can to make sure that your feet are waterproof. 'cause they're the ones who are in the water the most.

So they will be waterproof and not as breathable. Yeah. I think a key thing to, to. Remember here too, is that it doesn't have to be freezing cold for you to experience a cold injury. Uh, wet. Wet hands, wet feet, uh, because they're surrounded by wet socks or wet gloves that can lead to non freezing cold injury, which can lead to long-term neuropathies and.

All kinds of issues with, with your, your skin and the nerves in, in, uh, those extremities. So it's important to remember that you gotta keep stuff dry, 'cause cold, cold and wet is one of your, um, biggest enemies out there. Yeah. I would say one of the biggest mistakes the work war world makes, especially when it comes to their boots and their footwear, is, you know, they'll get it wet and then they leave it at the back door.

I think that, you know, much like, uh. Hockey players bring their skates and there's all of these, uh, shoe warmers and, and you know, they put it on that little shoe warmer things and it's blowing hot air in them. I think that we should be aware of coming home. If you don't have the blowers and you have a fireplace at home, stuff 'em with paper up to their toes and put 'em in front of the fire and try and get that first layer in the insole as dry as possible before you go out to work the next day.

'cause you are behind the eight ball right from the very beginning. If you're not drying out your insoles. How should safety and operation leaders think about their PPE program and the clothes that they issue and what they make available so that they can ensure that their workers have top performing gear?

You know, I would, I would suggest that the safety environment spend as much time worrying about the quality of clothing they get and how it performs rather than just. The clothing that they get meets the protective requirement. Requirement. You know, when you think about the the utility world, you know, don't just think about wearing the right amount of protection.

'cause a lot of the time, as we talked about earlier, the right amount of protection is not necessarily safe, especially if your body's water laden or moisture laden. So I would say much like you would think about. Putting all of the structure in place and having the software and having all the tools, and having all of the reporting and all of the requirements that you need to make sure that you're understanding and reporting about how safe people should be.

That you spend as much of that energy looking at how safe the PPE is that you're offering them, and not just from a minimal standard point of view, but from all aspects, including performance and comfort. And you mentioned this already, I mean, your products are higher performance, high quality, uh, components.

They are gonna be more expensive. And so if, if a safety leader or operations leader is, you know, creating a return on investment, uh, case for why it's worth investing in higher quality products, what do you say to that? Yeah. Uh, another good question. So. You know, there's, there's a number of things. Maybe you can't quantify it from a dollar perspective, but there's a, there's employee retention or the, what is it that you're doing to attract new members to your team and new employees who want to come and work in an environment.

And a lot of. What kind of PPE and what kind of garments people are wearing and what they're going to be wearing on a daily basis is going to impact the environment and the state of mind and how people perceive they're being taken care of in a working environment. That's the first thing. You create a good working environment for people, then you can ask a lot, but you can share a lot and you can create a lot in an environment where people are listening.

The second thing is, um, I think that. In an ROI perspective, when you look at how people take care of their clothing, if the clothing doesn't do much or is breaking down, or is something that has to be purchased on numerous occasions, if you look at the tone on something, let's just take a hoodie, for example.

If it's a cheaper hoodie and you're buying it. Twice or three times in the space of two years, but you're buying one hoodie that's more expensive and it's impacting the wearer and their state of mind and how much, how proud they are wearing it, how safe they are wearing it, how comfortable they are wearing it.

It doesn't get left on the floor in the back of a yard, in a utility yard where a person goes, I lost it. I don't care about it. That thing is kept in their locker and is worn on a daily basis. So your ROI over a long period of time, uh, will make the difference. Well, you've spent, uh, over three decades in the performance, uh, apparel space.

What are you most excited about right now as it relates to industrial athletes? Yeah, I think, I think that this conversation that we're having today. Uh, with social media, being able to get the message out with people, becoming more aware of what performance means to PPE in the workwear world, the technology that's being created, uh, in fabrics where fabrics can protect people and can perform, um, with the standards in North America and laboratories and utilities, and specifically in the utility, I find the utility market, and that's where we specialize most and we're most well known.

You know, they really, really, really are very, very stringent. And I think those stringent standards are beginning to permeate all industries. Not to say that they haven't been there, they've been there everywhere they are, but, uh, there is, there is no standard or safety environment out there that doesn't have room for improvement.

Uh, so I think that it's evolving. And then I also think that our younger generation, which we have a lot, I have a lot of faith in, are beginning to be more of a demand and be a little bit more outspoken. So I think that the boots on the ground at the level where they can be a demand about what makes a difference for them, and be more outspoken and share it with those in the upper levels of management.

I think that those messages are beginning to, uh, get heard and I think that the general, I mean, this could be subjective, this could be a podcast in itself, but I think that the awareness of what it takes to create an environment where employees are now being thought of more as people who can make a difference to your outcome as opposed to someone who's filling a position is beginning to evolve and change.

What's one message that you would want frontline workers to leave from this conversation? I, I would say don't think about just going to work every day as something that you get to do to be able to support the quality of life that you have. But think about what it's, what it's like to go to work every day and the dangers that are out there and what it's like to come home and be back home with your family and your loved ones, et cetera.

And if you do that. Be more aware on every single aspect of what it's gonna take to do your job. A hundred percent. And it's not just tools, but it's your clothing too. Any final thoughts that you'd like to leave our audience with? Simon? That was a great, great summary there, but I'm sure you have, uh, more to say, you know, the world gets to change.

Every person gets to make a difference. And so if who you can be, if it's just you for the moment, that's the only one that's out there that has that conversation about how important it is to you, then be a stand for it and share it. Because you never know what a pebble in the pool looks like, and just because of what you do and what you say and who you be, you can make a huge difference out there.

So don't give up on the conversation. You can influence anyone. Well, this conversation highlights something we too often overlook that safety doesn't stop at standards or certification. It lives in the details. People carry with them for 10 to 12 hours a day. And Simon, you've shown us that the same performance science used to protect climbers and endurance athletes can and should protect the people who keep our infrastructure running.

If this conversation changed how the, the way that you think about PPE Workwear. Heat and cold stress. Share this episode with leaders or safety professionals responsible for equipping crews out in the field. You can also support the the show by subscribing to the WorkReady Podcast on your favorite platform, and leave us a review.

It helps us continue to bring these conversations to the people who need the most, and we're gonna continue this conversation inside the WorkReady community. And Simon's gonna join us for a deeper dive on base layers, fabric choices, and practical changes safety leaders can make. Right now, just as a reminder, membership for the work, mossy work already community is totally free.

It's a chance to connect with other peers and we'll put that link in the show notes. Well, until next time, remember, you are worth investing in. So take care of yourself, take care of your people, and remember to stay work ready. Thanks so much.