Dr. Scott Lear | Website | How to Health Podcast

Dr. Kevin Rindal | Vimocity

Tell us about the concept of a movement snack. Yeah, let's aim for twenty to thirty minutes, but it doesn't have to be all at once. Twenty to thirty minutes a day of exercise can compete head-to-head with medications. Yeah, we need to put those on Super Bowl ads.

Our bodies are meant to move. Our joints are lubricated when we move. Our blood clots if it's not moving. I'm gonna go on and on about the mental benefits. We come back more productive, burst of energy, and, and so forth.

Scott Lear, welcome to the WorkReady Podcast. I'm so happy to have you on the show today. I really enjoyed learning about the research that you were a part of called The Pure Study, and that was back in 2017, and it looked at 130,000 people from 17, uh, countries. And if you were to distill that research down into a quick soundbite that a foreman might be able to share with their crew on Monday morning, what would that be?

That physical activity, movement, the actual benefits start right from going from zero minutes to one minute. We're talking to a group on this podcast who spends probably eight to 14 hours a day physically active. How does this study relate to them? Like, is that physical activity enough to maintain a high level of health?

Yeah, I would say the short answer, yes, but the long answer, uh, it depends. So some studies are showing that certain types of, of heavy manual labor, uh, where it's physically stressful can be a concern, which we can get into more. But if we're-- if somebody's doing like lifting, heavy lifting in a small room or twisting, turning and, and stuff, doing it for hours on end, that, that's something that, um, we're realizing may not have the same health benefits as if, let's say the, somebody going out walking, uh, or going to the gym And so, uh, there's also that heart rate component.

And so when you're doing those repetitive tasks, oftentimes your heart rate is staying at a relatively low level, and you're probably not getting into zone three or, or above, which we know there are some benefits for cardiovascular health related to getting into those higher zones. So is that one of the other things that maybe came from this or your, your other background research that you might need to supplement with some, uh, activity that gets the, the heart rate up into those other zones?

Yeah. I, I, I totally agree. And my, uh, agreement isn't so much based on what the research say. It's, it's probably based on what we don't know. So it-it's more of a case like we know the type of activity that it might be, and there are some people recommending that, yeah, even if you are doing this static, like in place lifting, twisting, turning, that y- it would be good to get some aerobic activity, um, in your discretionary time.

Now, how that happens, um, in terms of energy levels and, and things like that and, and willingness is, uh, something we can talk, talk about. It's definitely a, a different story. But I think that the, uh, people we're talking to right now aren't necessarily getting into these studies where we're making these guidelines from.

So it's a-- I think it's a big gap. Man, sounds like we might need to, to do another study. It may be something that wasn't covered in the pure study but is relevant to this workforce. There's this concept called Exercise is Medicine. It was a big initiative, uh, through the American College of Sp-Sports Medicine, and it really focused on physical activity can actually be one of the most protective health, um, activities that you engage in.

Do you have any thoughts as it relates to exercise's role in preventing chronic diseases? Yeah. And I'm, I'm a big proponent, uh, of that. And, uh, uh, most physician guidelines for things like, uh, preventing and treating diabetes, heart disease, risk factors such as blood pressure will, will have a lifestyle as a first, um, uh, first treatment option.

Uh, sometimes in line with medication, sometimes before. So, meeting the guidelines for activity, doing stuff like 20 to 30 minutes most days, uh, of the week is just as good as one, um, antihypertensive medication. Similarly with people with depression that is, um, can, can actually it relieve symptoms to the same extent as an antidepressant.

Uh, and, and so there's a myriad, um, cardiac rehab started in the late, uh, '80s, and it was still kinda controversial then, the idea of somebody's had a heart attack and get them up and moving. But the treatment before was like, "Oh, this person's got a weak heart," so they lie in bed in the hospital for 30 days.

And, um, s- some of them end up dying of a embolism. So like a-- 'cause your body's not moving the blood clots, and then it gets stuck in the lung or in, in the brain, and they, they get a stroke. So there's, uh, a lot of things that physical activity, exercise, movement is good at both preventing and treating various chronic and, and acute diseases Yeah, we need to put those on Super Bowl ads.

We never hear about twen- 20 to 30 minutes a day of exercise can, um, you know, compete head-to-head with, uh, medication for heart disease or depression. But, um, it's, uh, the easiest way that any of us can, you know, combat that stuff and, and maintain our health. So Scott, uh, tell us about m- the concept of a movement st- snack.

What is a movement snack, and how do you recommend that people- Yeah, yeah ... leverage that concept? So these, um, movement, uh, exercise snacks is, is meant to, uh, get across that, um, we can say, "Yeah, let's aim for 20 to 30 minutes," but it doesn't have to be all at once. Uh, so you can accumulate it. And these are-- these exercise snacks are probably around, like, two minutes of activity, and it's not meant that you go change into your gym gear and then do two minutes of activity.

It could be like me getting up right now and either pacing around the house or going downstairs or going to the water cooler, uh, two-minute walk, um, or going up the stairs, something kinda moderate to vigorous. Or it could be, um, in place, I'm doing jumping jacks or push-ups, sit-ups. And because it's so short, even if it is, uh, vigorous, you're not gonna be sweating, you're not gonna need to have a shower afterwards.

And also, it refreshes, refreshes you, and I, I'm gonna go on and on about, like, the mental benefits. You come back more productive, um, a burst of energy and, and so forth. So it's, it's, it's meant so that, um, to encourage people how to get it into their routine. For someone who's maybe on their feet for eight to 10 hours a day, what does it look like for them to, to do an exercise snack?

Might that be changing something like the movement if they've been doing a repetitive task, trying to change which muscles they're using or, or what could that look like for them? Yeah, I th- I think you, you, you said it e-exactly. It's, it's, uh, you know, somebody could be moving, um, standing on their feet, maybe, uh, taking a few steps side to side, but it's-- it, it could likely be repetitive.

So getting into a different, different posture, m- uh, m-moving different joints or, or moving them in a, like, different direction, right? If your arms always are working in, in front of you, kind of doing, uh, movement where you're getting your arms moving, uh, behind you. And, uh, I, I think of it in that case, I, I think of it also, even if somebody's sitting is you're doing that movement to lubricate your joints.

And, uh, if you, if you think of that you're always moving in the same, same pattern for minutes or hours, that, uh, you need to be doing something, um, opposite to that. So it would also depend on how much space the person has. Like if they have limited space, maybe like doing the air squats, maybe doing some push-ups or, or, or, or jumping jacks.

And it may sound silly, uh, to, to picture, but it's-- you, you do it and it's so refreshing. Maybe that kink that you're feeling in your back is, uh, uh, goes away 'cause you're just stretching out the joints more. Vimocity is more than training. It's a safety and readiness platform trusted by companies to keep their field professionals strong, healthy, and ready for the job.

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Scott, why is it important that the workforce sees themselves as athletes and look to athletes for inspiration as it relates to preparing their bodies for activity, recovery, training, longevity? I, I think that's a, a great term that you, you use and, and a great comparison because, uh, the work athletes are putting in lots of hours just like the elite athletes.

And, and as I was thinking about it, thinking about, you know, making sure there's the, the proper breaks, recovery, uh, within the rec- within what's possible during work time. Uh, and, um, and then, uh, if it's not possible during work hours, off hours, taking care of your, your body. Uh, do you, do you need to, if possible, have things like massage, stretching, going out for a half-hour walk to kind of break those kinks that were developed during, during the day, or is it a run or, or, or, or something else where you're moving your body but in a different way than you're doing all day?

There's then also the r- the nutrition recovery when you're done because if you're, if you're dehydrated at the end of the workday and you don't hydrate, you don't replenish that nutrition, it can affect your sleep, and then the next day you're, you're run down. Uh, uh, you're starting at a deficit Absolutely.

And can you maybe speak to that window of when the body's most receptive to take in calories, especially things like protein and some of those building blocks, so that it has the best chance of repairing? I think, uh, especially as we get older too, protein gets o-overlooked, and once we, we, um, uh, start getting into the 40s, 50s, and, and beyond, our body's efficiency to ha- to absorb protein in our gut is less.

So we actually have to eat more because, uh, to make up, to get the same amount that we would've, our body would've got when we are in, in our 20s. So, uh, I think in, um, even in general, concentrating on, on protein and then, like, things like fruits and vegetables are, are like a core part of, of the diet. If it is more, if it is more vigorous, like when I come home from that three-hour bike ride, yeah, I'll, I'll reach for some protein right after if, if I can.

Um, uh, this was told to me by a sports nutritionist, like one of the best after, uh, vigorous exercise, um, sports drinks is chocolate milk 'cause it has protein, sugar, and fat, and these are all things that you're gonna need after, after, um, a day of ex- uh, hours or a day of expending energy. Absolutely. And- What is your thought as it relates to the warmup?

You know, no athlete goes out on the field without preparing their body, but a lot of people show up, you know, 3 minutes to 6 AM and just go straight into swinging a hammer. What is the reason and the benefit of actually preparing your body- Yeah ... for that activity? So I'm, I'm sitting right now as we're, as we're talking.

So, um, the blood is only... my heart is only pumping blood to where it's, it's needed. So yeah, it's minimally needed in, in my legs. Uh, and, and so when, when I'm sitting, the arteries, the blood vessels where the, like the super highway for the blood and the nutrients and oxygen to be delivered is, um, it's like, let's just say it's, uh, only like a two-lane highway, right?

It's, um, constricted. If I want to get up and walk... Now, walking probably not is gonna be a problem, but if I wanna get up and, uh, go for a run, if I don't warm up, I'm still d- relying on that two-lane highway to get all my blood, when really I need a five-lane highway, and it takes time for the arteries to dilate, for those lanes to be added to get the blood t- to the working muscles.

And the other thing too, because, um, you know, a pro athlete might only be a pro athlete for 10 years, but a worker may be working 30 to 40 years. And as we get older, and as I get older, that time it takes to, for the blood vessel to expand to go from two to five lanes takes longer. So I, I think it's, um, really important, and depending on the activities, uh, uh, things that you can, can do before you start, um, throwing that sledgehammer around.

You know, f- the average person who works on the, in the trades, like I said, they're, they're putting in 10 to 14 hours a day. They've got family, they've got long commutes, and there isn't a lot of time for recovery and sleep. And so sleep may only be five to six hours a night. What role does sleep play in longevity when it comes to overall health and repair of the body?

Yeah. So well, sleep is, is hu- hugely im- important. So the, the guidelines recommend people, um, get seven to nine hours. So if you're getting five to six, you're building up what we call sleep debt every, every day. And, um, it's, it's important physically for, for sure, and we're probably more aware about that, that physical aspect.

But it's also re- um, important for our brain recovery. And, uh, as we go through the day, like all our thoughts, our decisions, our movements that come through our nervous system, come through our brain, they, um, generate like, um, uh, s- like toxins. And so it's during sleep that those get cleared, right? And, and so if they're, if they're-- if you're not getting enough quality sleep, then, then you're waking up and it's compromising your mental function right from, from the start.

And, and that can affect your physical performance, but also your decision-making, your, your, um, ab- ability to handle tasks e- efficiently, but also to do them in a way that is accurate. Like rate-- Like it, it's no surprise that the rate of on-the-job injuries increase with, uh, uh, la- as lack of sleep in- in- increases bec- because of it's not just the physical, lack of physical recovery, it's lack of mental recovery as well

So we've talked about exercise, hydration, nutrition, sleep, warm-up. There are all these things and, and that can sound kind of overwhelming to somebody, but I always tell people it's the cumulative effect of small habits that over time turn into big change. And so practically speaking, what is maybe, like, one small incremental move in the right direction in those areas that somebody could make that might, you know, compound into something that has a, a larger impact?

I would say work on the sleep first. That would be my thing. If that's something that, uh, needs help is to work on that because it's like the foundation for which everything i- is built. It's because once that's there, then you have more energy. You're-- it's easier to make better nutritions decisions 'cause somebody who's sleep deprived, our body naturally craves high energy foods, which tend to be lacking in, in nutrients.

And s- so you can make these better decisions. Well, Scott, uh, one thing that really intrigued me just as I prepared for this is I've read a few different articles, listened to a couple of your podcasts where you've talked about, um, you're an expert in cardiology and cardiovascular risk, but, uh, you had an ar- arrhythmia that for a long time, maybe in the back of your head, you, you knew that there might be something off there, uh, but, uh, you didn't necessarily pay attention to those signs and take action.

And that was one of the learnings that you've shared, uh, over and over again is, is how to pay attention to those early signs so that you can catch stuff in the earliest stages. And then, uh, similarly, uh, in twenty-twenty-one, uh, the mental health aspect also became, uh, something that you realized was just Under the radar, uh, being chipped away at, and then you, you recognized it and you were able to address it.

Can you tell us both your personal experiences? Maybe let's start with the arrhythmia, and then you can, uh, transition into talking about, uh, 2021 and the, the depression that you experienced. Yeah, cer- certainly. Uh, and, and, you know, no matter how much education and awareness we have, um, uh, you know, we can-- we're, we're still sometimes, uh, either not aware or not so much not aware, but hesitant.

And I'd say, um, this might be more so for guys than, than women. Uh, you know, we feel a twinge. "Oh, I'm not gonna say anything. Um, you know, maybe it'll go away." The, the-- It was probably after about eight years after I first noticed the arrhythmia. Now, when it started eight years prior to that, so around 2010 or tw- 2009, it was, it was just happening maybe once or twice a year.

And this is- And can you describe what an arrhythmia is? Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, so, um, our... The human heart is meant to beat at regular intervals. Um, uh, and so an arrhythmia is just basically an abnormal rhythm. And in my case, what was happening is once, um, my excited heart rate or my elevated heart rate from exercising every now and then would, um, stimulate a part of my heart that would then, what I would call, go off rogue and decide, "Hey, I'm gonna pa- I'm gonna pump-- make the heart beat at how I wanna do it."

So, so my heart rate would go super high And so this would be called ventricular tachycardia, so super high. And the problem with, with that is like the heart's basically a pump, and it opens up and then fills with blood and then, uh, compresses to squirt, to push the blood out. But if it's pump- pumping, beating too fast, it doesn't even open up enough for blood to fill in it.

So my heart rate, when it was happening, was getting so fast that there was no blood filling in, and if I was active, then I could start to feel perhaps lightheaded or my muscles would start to feel like lead because they weren't getting, uh, blood and oxygen supply. So that happened maybe, um, a couple times a year.

But over the course of these, uh, seven, eight years, I noticed by the time I was, um, talked about it to a, a cardiology friend, it was happening a couple times, uh, a week when I was, when I was swimming. And I was able to-- like on my own, I was able to kind of snap my heart rhythm back in, in, to, to place. So it would only last, uh, uh, one or two seconds, but it was starting to get this concerning and I was starting to get concerned.

But my, my hesitation was, um Again, that kind of irrational thought of, "Oh, I don't wanna make a big deal out of this," type of thing. You know, I don't wanna worry my wife, I don't wanna worry my kids, I don't wanna, uh, you know, uh, worry my cardiology friend. And, um, but then I, I just decided I, I had to... And, and it was really like thinking of what the downstream s- scenario could be if I didn't.

And so I actually wrote my cardiology friend, like, a page email totally describing everything in medical detail that I could, um, to answer all of hi- his questions. And, uh, so that's, uh, so I was diagnosed with that, went to-- under a number of tests, and I take, uh, I was prescribed a beta blocker, which actually slows the heart rate down and lowers blood pressure.

And I've-- my dosage has gone down over the years, and so now I just take the, it, I take a really small dose, uh, a few times, uh, a week. And, uh, from a training perspective, my training has improved because of that. Because before taking that medication, I would... It was always in the back of my mind, "Oh, I better not go too hard or this is gonna happen."

But now, um, uh, now it's like I can take that medication, I feel comfortable. It's not in my, in my head, so I can go out and enjoy my swim or my bike ride with- without that being in my, in my mind. So it is, um, uh, I, I totally, uh, understand that, you know, sometimes, and as I said, especially for men, y- you know, coming forward and saying, "Oh, this isn't, uh, this doesn't feel right."

And as I've got, especially as I've got older, you know, and that lesson, I'm, I'm going for all the screening tests. You know, like I went-- When I turned 50, I was like, said to my doctor, "Okay, I need-- Let's get that screening for colorectal cancer done." Now the age is 45. But making sure you're on, on top of those things, um, uh, I, I, I think...

And I, I, it-- My frame instead of, you know, I'm not gonna worry the people around me has, has flipped. It's like, well, what if this goes a pathway that it could go that's gonna cause me and my loved ones more anxiety than just getting a few tests So someone listening to this episode may actually be noticing some owns-- uh, some of their own signs or symptoms that something is off.

What would you say to that person who is, like, downplaying them or just like, "Ah, maybe I'll just give it a little more time"? What, what is your learning and your recommendations to them? Obviously, best case scenario is nothing is wrong. But if you can get in, and the earlier that something is identified, whether it's, um, like something like I talked about my arrhythmia or whether it's a spot on your nose or something like that, the easier it is to treat.

Uh, as well, the less time you'll spend in healthcare, uh, less, uh, time away from work and your family and so forth Well, mental health and depression is one of the number one things that the workforce is experiencing right now. We, we know that there's some of the highest rates of suicide in, uh, in the trades compared to any other industry, especially the general population, almost five times, uh, the number.

Uh, drug overdoses, uh, substance abuse, and it's, it's something that we're talking about a lot more in the industry, but, uh, even a couple years ago, it just wasn't something that anyone talked about. You've been very vocable-- vocal sharing about your, uh, experience with depression. Can you walk us through that?

Yeah. Uh, yeah, definitely not. Now, mental illness is un- unfortunately one of those things that it's hard to, uh, i- identify. You know, if I, if I see blood in my stool, I'm going to the doctor right away. If I'm getting a cramp in my stomach for a few days or, or s- something in my chest, I'm, I'm going to the doctor.

But when it affects your, your mental ability, it also affects your ability to... your awareness, your self, self, uh, awareness. And so I think it's, uh, the, the message can go twofold to, to the individual, but also for the, uh, for people to be able to recognize those around us who may be suffering because I, you know, I knew I wasn't...

So this was December 2020 when I was diagnosed. But just like any type of chronic disease, whether heart disease, cancer, diabetes, by the time somebody's diagnosed, the disease has already been present for years. And having come through the other side, you know, the last few years have been some of the, like, most, like, mentally enjoyable of, of my life because I, I no longer have, uh, depression.

I was probably suffering for, you know, five to 10 years, who, who knows? And, uh, and I was saying to myself, you know, "It's okay to not be okay," but I was saying that every day for, like, months and, and months. And it was also- It was happened, you know, I likely suffered from depression before the pandemic, uh, but, uh, December '21 was kinda like right in the middle or near the tail end, already been inside for a, a year.

And I'm sure that, uh, uh, uh, accelerated, um, you know, it affected my behaviors. I thought it was just affecting me, but affected my family, you know, and, and it makes total sense. Like, if you're in a house of four or five people, what- however many people, and somebody's always in a downer mood, uh, down mood every single day, that's going to, to rub off.

So, um, un-unfortunately, like things are, uh, come out a lot better, but unfortunately, it was a hard time, hard on my family. Family k- blew apart, uh, got separated and, and divorced. Um, my, my daughter, um, she was 17 at the time. Uh, uh, her and I had-- were butting heads and, you know, um, we still haven't talked, but we're communicating by messages most days of the week, which was, uh, a lot from where we were the, the fir- first year, where we weren't, uh, where she wasn't communicating with me.

Uh, and then my ex-wife and I were, were good, good friends, so came out the other side, um, and, and, uh, in a, in a lot better place. Uh, the thing too, like as you mentioned, the, the stats, like middle-aged men, men in general commit suicide at three to four times the rate of women, and the highest rate is of middle-aged men.

And if you're talking about then on top of that, the, the trades. And, and some of it, like I said, we don't recognize this in our, in ourselves because it's unfortunately not talked about as much. But if, if you start losing the enjoyment of life, or you're feeling, or you're saying to yourself, uh, um, "It's okay to not be okay," every day for two weeks or more, then it's, it's probably more than just an off day or, uh, an off week.

And, um, and then just talking to somebody. And sometimes it's not just meaning that you have to go see the doctor, but talking to a, a loved one who can then provide guidance and then maybe, uh, help you get those, uh, supports. And I, I think also, um- We need to, uh, break down the, the barriers of men talking to each other and, and sharing things.

You know, sharing the, the challenges. We all go through challenges, you know. Um, life gives us lots of scars, and the older we get, the more, more scars. And having those people that we can, we can talk to and share those things, "Hey, like I'm not feeling really, really good today. I don't ne- necessarily know why, but, you know, just thought I'd, I'd let you know."

And, um, and again, it's the same thing that touched on with the arrhythmia. We could think, "Oh my God, well, so and so doesn't wanna hear about my, my problems." Well They, they do to the, uh, e-extent that, um, they'd rather help you now than hear about something worse later. And our, our loved ones are more patient and kind, um, than we probably try to convince our-our-ourselves.

And, and I found, and as you said, I've been quite outspoken, uh, because I find when you share, you give permission to other people to share. I've been in a hot tub just talking to some stranger, and I don't know how it came up and said, "Oh, okay, yeah, I was, um... I, I'd just come out of this treatment facility."

And I said, "Oh, I haven't..." He's like, "Oh, have you been swimming much?" And I just said, "Well, I haven't swam for two months because of this." And then all of a sudden he started saying, "You know, I was dealing with something like that." Right? Yeah. Two guys in the hot tub, right? And I bet you we both came away feeling better for it.

That's awesome. Tell us about the moment where you f- were... actually did recognize, "I ha- do have something that needs to be addressed," and what were your first steps? Did you find a, a counselor or a therapist to work with? Yeah. So I, um, uh, you know, just as a, um, uh, heads up, I'll be fully honest, but just in case some people might find it a bit triggering.

Yeah. For me, it, it was a blowout, uh, had like with my daughter and then my wife, and, um, talking about me leaving home and, um, and that just like, like right there and then I just thought my, my life was crumbling around me. And I, um, I, I went and, um, went up and had my prescription medication and I thought, "Okay, well, I'll just down the, the medication."

And I don't know what prompted, um... it was what prompted my, my son. Like, I had closed the bathroom door and, um, he knocked on the door and, um, I said, "Oh, everything's..." He said, "Dad, are you okay?" And I said, "Everything's fine." And then again, like I've, um, I've since like I've totally thanked him for this, but I've never asked him kind of what prompted him to open the door.

Hmm. And, and then him opening the door was, uh, what, what stopped me, and then my wife came in and we sat down and talked about it, and then that was when That was when I was like, went to talk to my family doctor. Um, being in the health field and the research field that I'm in, I had a friend who's a clinical psychologist, so I benefited from, from people, uh, around me, uh, who could provide those supports.

But that was really like the kind of, uh, ac-acute event that I, I was dealing with. And, and unfortunately, it's, it's kind of like that. It's just like a, you know, somebody experienced a, a heart attack, you know, like the disease has been kind of festering. Maybe they got some warning signs ahead of the time, but it's that acute event, "Oh, okay, I'm getting chest pain," or, "I just had a heart attack," then yeah.

And, um, you know, so maybe if there was... I'm, I'm not, um, I'm just thinking maybe if there was easier ways to see the warning signs, like we have the Heart and Stroke Foundation puts out these advocates say, "Oh, these are the signs of stroke." Well, we need to have the same thing. These are the signs for somebody who's mentally unwell or suffering.

Um, and we need to have something out like that so that we can recognize before these, these, uh, devastating things happen. I totally agree. And Scott, I just so appreciate you sharing that story. I think that you sharing is actually a, a really huge first step for, you know, someone else maybe being able to recognize some of that own pain that they're experiencing in their life, and it, it's a conversation starter.

And so these type of conversations are a step forward for, for other people, just kinda like your hot tub experience. It, it, it may be that thing that, um, resonates with someone else. So thank you for, for sharing that. If, if you were to go back to yourself At 40 years old, now where you're at today, what advice would you give yourself, um, as it relates to physical health, mental health, uh, all those other things?

I, I spent a lot of time thinking like I'm working towards something, uh, that will later happen. Like I, I would think even when I was in my, in that age, I would think, oh, well things will be better when I retire. And, and looking at that, like that's what, like 20 years later, I'm not gonna enjoy life, um, un- until...

And who knows what happens, um, in those, those 20 years. And it's not-- And I wouldn't say to myself, dump everything and just go live on a island with a beach all around. It's, it's more of just that kind of taking in what's happening that day or that week and, uh, and allowing. And I would say to myself, allow yourself to en- enjoy the, the time, uh, around you, whether it's family, friends or, or even just, you know, going out for a walk with and, and feeling the sun on you Scott, are there any things that we didn't cover in this conversation that you wanna make sure we leave our audience with?

I, I think that, uh, a lot of times we, um, are-- we get con- concerned that, um, nobody will understand us, and that can be, um, why we might not speak up, whether it's a physical or, or a mental thing, or even a challenge, right? Like, uh, but what I've learned is, yes, we're all individuals, but we all, at the same time, go through our challenges, life's ob- obstacles.

You know, somebody who looks like they have it all together, we don't know their backstory. We don't know how they feel when they get in their home, and they close the door. And, um, uh, but, you know, that's, um, what life throws at us. And, uh, I, I think rec- if we recognize that what we're going through, people go through, have gone through for generations, millions of, of people, then it will kind of help us to take better care of ourselves too.

S- I always say that the warning signs are kinda like your check engine light going on, and if you put a piece of tape over it it doesn't mean that the engine is getting any better. Or y- the fire alarm's going off, and you take the batteries out. It's, uh, you know, it doesn't mean that the fire's not there.

And you, you pointed out some really important, um, things, especially as it relates to the mental aspect because the mental aspect is, is so- it's something that's harder to see. Uh, it's not a wound. It's not blood. It's not, um, something that you necessarily identify as needing that treatment right away, but it can have a profound impact.

And so, uh, your vulnerability, I, I think, um, is really meaningful for the people who listen to this show. And, um, so I would encourage those who are listening, if you-- this conversation did, uh, trigger some things that cause you to think, "Man, I, I might need to talk to someone," uh, call your EAP. There are some f- uh, phenomenal resources available oftentimes through your company.

Pull a brother or sister aside and let them know that you just need to talk. But, um, that's what, what this is all about. It's, it's being work ready. It's taking care of yourself, taking care of your team. And so, Scott, we just really appreciate, uh, you bringing that perspective, uh, to this conversation, so thank you.

Yeah. Well, thanks, Kevin, for the opportunity and, and for the great conversation. It was... Yeah, I enjoyed it. And until next time, take care of yourself, take care of your people, and remember to stay work ready.