How to Move Up Fast in the Trades: Turning a Servant Mindset Into Servant Leadership

Josh Nieves | Miller Electric Company

Dr. Kevin Rindal | Vimocity

You don't need a performance title to start leading like one. You could lead right where you are. You could adopt a leadership mindset right where you are and create a really large impact and ripple effect. Josh Nevis started at 18 asking questions. Nobody else would ask carrying tools. Nobody asked him to carry all these little practices.

I did. Showing up early every single day, coming in with a servant mindset, which eventually turned into servant leadership that ended up transcending into leadership roles.

Today, he breaks down exactly what separates the people who advance from the people who stagnate, and what you can start doing on your next shift to advance your career.

This is the WorkReady podcast.

Josh, it's so great to have you on the WorkReady podcast. Why should people listening to this conversation care about and prioritize workforce development?

Well, if you are in construction and you're operating at any level, right? We care about the business. And the reality is you cannot build better business without building better people. And that's essentially what workforce development is. It's a people business. What we're pouring into the workforce, we're amplifying talent so businesses can scale or at least sustain.

And you've worked frontline jobs for most of your career. Why is this a topic that you're so passionate about? I see you all the time on LinkedIn posting stuff. You're a thought leader. I can just tell like oozes out of you. You're so passionate about it.

Yeah, so worked in New York City for the majority of my career in the field, and I saw a lot of these challenges up close and personal friends leaving the industry, career stagnation, individuals having serious health issues at young ages. And truth be told, none of that was happening to me. So, um, after 18 years, I had to take a quick step back and try to look at the landscape as a whole and see, you know, where are we failing? We have to be failing because this isn't, this isn't normal. Um, you know, add the element of, uh, individuals who are taking their own lives in construction, those metrics are, um, absolutely devastating.

What can we do better? Uh, so for me it just, it was all about just taking a step back, looking at the entire picture, and seeing where my voice could fit. I can amplify it and, uh, serve people. Right now there are more people leaving the industry than coming into the industry. What are some of the trends that you're seeing currently?

Yeah, so I, I think. It's kind of, there's, there's two P pieces here. One, it's maybe lack of interest or lack of excitement. And this is coming from maybe the younger generation. And I'm, I'm working on strategies to kind of combat that. And then there's also the individuals who were just retiring. You know, it's no fault of their own.

They paid, they did their 40, 45 years, they paid their dues. But what's interesting, Kev, is that knowledge transfer is not happening. Uh, and it's not their fault. They're, they're leaving, they, they have every right to ride into the sunset, right? But then there's the individuals who are my age, their thirties and their forties, where that wasn't necessarily passed down to them.

And I'm not saying that's true for everyone, it was for me, but for a good majority, they never experienced mentorship. They were told just come to work, collect a check and go home. Or myself and maybe just a handful of other people were told no, like. Each one teach one is our business motto. Um, part of our existence is only happening because we are pouring into other people.

And when we stop doing that, uh, our industry is, you know, unfortunately is gonna start to feel it and it's gonna get that impact. And I believe we're seeing that today. So I think highlighting, mentorship, uh, make, getting that front facing again, making that a core part of our industry is gonna be a big piece.

So, uh, to answer your question there, there's, uh, just that knowledge is leaving and it's, it's not being passed down. But I think there, there are ways we could remediate that for those listening who may be at the sunset of their career, they have that 30 to 40 years of experience. What can they do to help transfer that knowledge to the younger generation?

Because, I mean, it is such a huge value to, to have that knowledge available. And it's just like, you do not wanna see it go to waste. Yeah. You know, there, there's a. I think it takes a special individual. Um, not everyone is going to do that. Uh, some people believe, Hey man, I'm just, I'm just here to work. I'm here to do my job.

And sure if I build a great relationship with a young man or woman on the job, that's awesome, but if not, it's no sweat off my back. And I think we just need, need to encourage it as leaders, uh, individuals who are on the office side, we need to create systems to support the people who are transitioning and ensuring that they pass that, that knowledge down.

It's not a matter of if it should happen, it absolutely needs to happen and we need to encourage it. And I, I don't think we do that enough. And what can maybe a, a newer worker or an apprentice do to gain that knowledge and glean that knowledge from, uh, the generation that is before them? I, I love it. So certainly it's asking questions.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got in my career was Josh, a closed mouth doesn't get fed. They don't know what you're struggling with unless you ask. Uh, there's also the generational disconnect. So the guys who are in their fifties, maybe in their sixties who are leaving can't really relate to the 20-year-old, the the 30-year-old.

So there, there needs to, someone needs to act as a bridge, and that's another reason why you need workforce development. Someone who, like myself and many others, I have plenty other teammates scattered throughout the country, or they can connect with those who are leaving because we've been there, we've been in the field, we've operated alongside them.

And then also kind of tie that relatability piece to the next generation, that those are really important things, but you need a bridge. I can imagine like you're 18, you join a crew, it's pretty intimidating to walk up to somebody with like 30 more years of experience and, and ask them questions because you don't wanna look dumb, you don't wanna look like you don't know, uh, what to do.

But can you tell us some of those stories? Maybe rewind to where you were when you're 18, 19, 20 years old, what were some of the things that you did to, to glean information from, uh, that uh, more experienced generation? Yeah, so the, the, the hardest thing to do is to admit, well, you don't know, right? Uh, I think that that's true for a lot of people to say, Hey, I have no clue.

I don't know what to do. I've never seen this before, especially for younger people. There's a, there's a little bit of an ego there, there's a little bit of pride. You always say young people, they think they know everything, but that, that could be true for, you know, the, uh, older men and women as well.

Right. I think that's kind of a universal truth. But, uh, so a, a big part of that for me was just putting it out there, right? Just kind of casting that line and see what would happen. And, uh, New York, New York City is a very unique place. Uh, there's a lot, there's a cast of characters. That's the best way I could describe it.

And, uh, add the element of the construction space. It's, it can be really, it could be really different, especially at 18, but when, when most people see that you have a hunger and a desire and a fire in your belly to learn, they're gonna teach you. Right. Uh, it's part of construction is there's a little bit of a banter happening.

Guys will say, they'll, they'll pick on you a little bit, but I found that over the years, not nothing was, uh, done with ill intention. It was just always about kind of like that big brother relationship and just being open to it. You can't close yourself off to correction. You can't close yourself off to criticism, embrace it, ask questions, and do your best every single day.

Thankfully, uh, I had strong, this kind of ties back to mentorship. My father was in the industry for, uh, over 40 years and believe he's a 55 year member of the IBW To this day. He's 83 years old. God bless him. And, uh, I had that mentorship early on. He told me, Josh, ask questions. Show up on time. Carry yourself with integrity.

Do the right thing. And I mean that the do the right thing could, that's kind of a big umbrella, but those were his words. I, I listened to my old man, ran with it and, and I found success because of it. And I I love those four things that he mentioned. Why are those important for building trust on your crew?

Especially when you're young, you're, you're the new guy on the crew. Um, I mean, 'cause it's all a trust building, uh, on day to day. So why, why is that important? Yeah. You know, trust is, trust is a tremendous, uh, it's a tremendous ask of anyone, but when people see that you are doing the things that you're supposed to be doing right out of the gate that don't really require much, it sends a large message.

I mean, we have people who've been in the trades for 20, 30 years and still aren't showing up to work on time. Right. And I was raised on Lombardi time. What is that? If you're on time, you're late and if you're earlier on time. Yeah. Uh, that's how I was raised. And when people saw that, when my foreman saw that, when my superintendent saw that immediately I got the buy-in.

When I started asking questions about the work that they were doing, immediately I got the buy-in. When I would do things that they didn't ask me to do, carry their tools to, and from the work area, I mean, it's a very humbling thing to do that, but I did it because that's what I was taught to do. My dad told me to do that.

Uh, sweeping the s shanny. At the end of the day, if I was asked to go into the bathroom and clean the toilet, I would do it. Somebody had to do it. It was part of the job, uh, at the time. And when people see that you are humble and you're, you're a servant at whatever level, um, they tend to open up with animosity.

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How did those things advance your career without you even trying by just showing up and being consistent? Yeah, I, I, I love that question. So I think all those little things that I did early on, my time as an apprentice started, started to compound, right? If, uh, if I couldn't get the coffee order right for 50 guys, how was I gonna order material?

As a foreman, if I, if I don't wanna sweep the s shanny or, or, or clean the, or clean the office, like how is I gonna maintain a clean job site? It kind of ties back to, uh, like the Miyagi dough and like wax on, wax off. He's doing all these things and he gets to a point where he feels like this is a complete waste of time.

What does this have to do with, with karate? What does this have to do with karate? And then Mr. Miyagi stops what he's doing, right? He tells him to drop everything and then he starts throwing all these punches at him and he's blocking everything. And all of a sudden this organic process happens to, to Daniel's son, right?

Yeah. So it was very, very similar to me, keb, where all these little practices I did showing up, uh, early every single day. Uh, coming in with a servant mindset, which eventually turned into servant leadership, admitting what I don't know, and just being humble. That ended up transcending into leadership roles.

And I think those things are absolutely needed if you're gonna work in any kind of leadership capacity. Absolutely. That's so well said. And it gets noticed because you stand out when you are intentional, and that's just are how people, um, expect you to show up. I mean, you become predictable and you become reliable and you become the person that they wanna work with.

You speak all over the place, especially on workforce development. What are the key topics that, um, you tend to talk about when you're, um, addressing crowds? Yeah, so it's a really interesting topic because a big part of our industry has no clue what it's, it's, it sounds good. Workforce development, it feels good, but what I'm seeing, it's been, it's been treated as an extension of hr.

It's not, it's not at all. It's a totally different ball game right in itself. So the, the three things that we talk about, even at Miller Electric, that made total sense to me when I came in was attract, develop, and mobilize talent. Now, when you say those three things, sure, that sounds great, Josh. Whenever I get on a stage, everyone goes, great.

How do you attract? That is a, that is a study in itself. How do you build relationships in your community? How do you meet young people where they are? How do you get them excited about the industry? How can you sell the different trade pathways? 'cause it, it can get a little salesy sometimes. These young people are there and there are to sell, right?

But you have to find ways to get them excited about that. And I mean, there's a lot more moving parts to that. But then, and developing people. What does that look like internally? Uh, most of the time when I speak to, uh, corporations or executives, they go, Josh, I, I, I just don't have the, we don't have the, the money to, to build out this, this giant training program.

It's like, well, well, who said you need to do that? You know? How difficult is it for you to do a lunch and learn? You have leaders throughout your entire company that you trust, right? Of course you do. Why aren't you leveraging their voices in all their experience in-house to support the guys who are coming up?

All of a sudden you see them do this. You take those models, you take those cohorts, it goes from a lunch and learn to maybe a quarterly meeting every single year to, Hey, we're rolling this, you know, 4, 5, 6 week cohort out. Uh, and we're doing the practical side of the training. So it's not super in depth.

It doesn't need to be super rigid, but you need to do something right. And then mobilization. When people hear that, it's like, okay, so that just means throwing people on a job site. It's like, no, there's a continued, there's a continued support process that needs to happen. Are your leaders checking in with the workforce?

Are your executives checking in with your leaders? Are people meeting their KPIs? How are we coaching the workforce? Do we have a mentorship program to ensure that they're finding success and we're addressing what their pain points are on the job? So when I start to share those things on like the big stage, you could see, like in the audience, you could see the light bulb kind of, you know, go off.

And before I know it, when I leave that stage, I have to, I have to have to set some time to the, to the side man, because it gets, it gets pretty intense and people want answers, which is exciting. But, um, yeah, so attract, develop, mobilize, each one of those is a study in itself. And then we could really focus on the attraction piece first.

The rest starts to become a little bit easier. I love that. Let's actually talk about attract, I mean, some of the people listening, they may have, you know, son, daughter, uh, nephew, niece, uh, you know, just someone that they is in their world who's thinking about either going to college, joining the trades, or just what they want to do from a career standpoint right now.

I mean, there is such a shortage of, uh, workers to, you know, build data centers and build the infrastructure that we need to keep this, this country, uh, powered and moving. Why are the trades, um, such a great option for people, especially this day and age? Yeah, I mean, when you look at, uh, and this isn't a, a dig at university or college, you know, when you look at the, the financial side of it, right?

And I'm not, and I'm not talking community college. I think community college would probably be the best place to start. Um, but at the same time, a lot of individuals. Coming to the trades after college because they realized college, college wasn't for them pretty quickly. Now they have all this mounded debt and now they're starting at a lower scale when they could have actually stepped into the industry at 18 years old, high school diploma or equivalent, the ability to get to and from work, 18 years or older.

That's just in my jurisdiction when I'm working. From there, we start to talk about the opportunities to, uh, and this is on the IBW side, right? You know, collecting a pension, the incredible benefits that you could have for your family, uh, retirement, the continued education world class training through Nika, the ETA and our partners, you know, their eyes start to open up a little bit and, and I'll never say that, you know, one is better than another.

It really boils down to the individual, but I think. Traditionally, we haven't really done a good job at putting both options on the table and letting young men and women figure it out for themselves. Um, I, I absolutely love doing this. I love saying, Hey, this, this is a typical university pathway, right?

This is BA based on, you know, average statistics in the country, and this is what, you know, coming into the IBEW could look like for you. And the great part about that is in many unions, based on their CBA, you can come out of a four or five year program with a college degree. So when I start to share those things with them, you can see the light bulb goes off.

But honestly, Kev, I don't think any, any pathway is bad. I just think that the skilled trades have always taken a sideline to higher education. Thankfully now those conversations are more front facing and things are changing. Yeah, absolutely. And just even the, you know, again, not being in debt and the. The opportunity that people have to make a really good salary.

I mean, it's, it's pretty remarkable what you can do if you follow this path. So it's exciting to, that's right. To see this talked about and, uh, presented as an alternative for more people. What are the things that you are finding from the development standpoint? What topics, what skills are, uh, the most important things for people to focus on maybe early in their career, and then if they wanna move into a leadership role?

So it's, it's adopting a leadership mindset early on. Uh, whenever I talk to, uh, young men and women who are emerging in the trades, you know, they think that, you know, a title makes them a leader. Uh, once you become a foreman, you're officially a leader. No, you could lead right where you are. You could adopt a leadership mindset right where you are and create a really large impact and ripple effect.

Um, one of the biggest gaps that I see, and I, and I recently did a little bit of a case study on LinkedIn with this as I asked, what do you believe is a bigger gap, the skills gap? Leadership gap and, uh, overwhelming maturity was actually the leadership gap, which, which I also believed. And I think it's also a bigger challenge, Kev, because skills you can constantly teach people, you can constantly refine, you can teach people how to install three ways, four ways, and eventually they'll get it.

But the leadership is a mindset. It is a mindset. And I think even with guys who have been in the industry a long time, maybe don't really have a leadership mindset. So trying to get them to think like a leader and maybe step into a foreman's role and they've never done that before, could be a big challenge.

And, um. Uh, we're doing that right now at Miller. I'm really excited about, we have a program we're rolling out, it's called Frontline Leaders, where we're tr we're finding out what some of the pain points are on these, these massive data center projects with our team. Uh, we're meeting in a large group between 50 to, uh, 60 people.

And we, and we're beating these topics up, we're bringing in professional speakers, leadership coaches, uh, and trade advocates to get these guys excited and making sure that they have the right tools to be successful and getting them to think a little bit differently about the role that we're trying to set them up for.

This is just an observation, but it does seem like one of the ways that you do advance in the trades is to move into a leadership role. So you might be probably one of the most skilled people, um, at that craft, but then if you want to continue to move up, it, it. It involves leading other people, managing people, but there's typically not a lot of, uh, training that goes around managing people.

And that's like a totally different skillset. Yeah. What do you see as some of the biggest gaps when it comes to people going from, you know, working on the tools to managing people, and what skills should people pursue when it comes to that? Okay, so when I was first handed a role as a foreman, uh, the company that I worked for, it's no secret.

They're, they are now today in New York, a top 10 electrical contractor, a union electrical contractor. Uh, they scaled from 200 when I was with them. 'cause I, I, now, I think they have a couple thousand, and this is over the course of 17 years, right. One thing that they did very well was take a, a guy like myself, 22 years old, they gave me a set of drawings, but they put me under someone.

Who could monitor my, how I communicated. They could monitor how I walked on the job site, how I dealt with high stress situations, and they can give me that feedback. And, uh, shout out to Anthony Pisani. He was that guy for me. He was with this company for 40 years. He was a tremendous mentor. I got under his belt in my early twenties, and he was the definition of a leader.

This guy, I mean, the amount, the project scale that he was operating on and he was overseeing was just incredible. A hundred fifty, two hundred, three hundred men at a time. And for whatever reason, he took a liking into me. And I, I would, at the end of the day, have, I'd go into his office, I'd knock on his door, he'd sit me down, he'd tell me to close the door, and he would just pour into me.

I'd have a hundred questions for him, uh, share all my wins throughout the day and my pain points. And eventually I became, uh, someone that he would bring to every project. So what, what, what am I saying? You need people like Anthony. You need people who understand how important that knowledge transfer is.

But at the same time, you need young people who are eager to learn. So, uh, and as far as the skills that are needed to e evolve and grow in that role, communication is tremendous. Keeping a strong line of communication and holding people accountable to that is very important. Also, operating with integrity.

If you are a foreman and you are a superintendent and you do not keep your word, and you don't honor the things that come outta your mouth, you're, you're gonna have a rough go these guys out in the field, if you say coffee is from nine to nine 30, and you cut that break short, you better have an answer as to why, why you did that.

And I'm just, I'm giving a silly example, but I've seen that go south really quick. Or if you say, Hey, when we finish this guy's the day's over, everybody go home and you don't keep your word, it's gonna be a problem. Right. So, uh, biggest things for me personally, and I'm not saying this is a universal truth, I'd say communication is really big and integrity.

Retention is probably one of the most important things for, for companies. You know, keeping that good talent, keeping to the good people. 'cause I mean, it's so easy to, to find a, a different opportunity just down the street. What are the keys to building a culture that promotes retention of, uh, top talent?

Yeah. So you, you gotta, you gotta give people room to grow. Uh, the, now, now Kev, this is a really unique question because everyone is gonna have a different answer to what, what gets them excited, what wakes them up. You know, one thing I love, uh, about the contractors I've worked for in the past and the contractor I currently work with, uh, Miller Electric is, they tr the trust component is tremendous.

You know, there, there's no micromanagement. Um, you know, there's no heavy oversight. What are you doing every single day? You know, I need a, I need a daily report of, uh, of your wins, your losses. There's, there's none of that stuff. It's, you know, there's a huge trust component that I absolutely, for me, personally, is really big.

I want to be trusted. I've been in this business for 20 years now. Uh, I'm fully invested and I would hate to have to constantly prove myself all the time. I mean, I'm just way past that point. Um. So I think that's a really important component for me personally. And then upward mobility. I'm wired for growth.

I always have been. I always will be. I can't tell you I'm, I'm always asking, okay, what's next? I could be in a place for, for, for a week. I'm saying, okay, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? Uh, I think that's kind of the entrepreneur in me. I'm always looking for a challenge. I don't ever want to be stagnant.

And that was also true when I was in the field. If I felt that I, that I had some good momentum in a space I'd, I'd reach out to my super and say, Hey man, let's get some more guys here. I, I got some other work I can do and I want to challenge myself. I, I want to figure out what my threshold is. You know, I want to grow.

Uh, so no different than working out and taking care of your body. You realize pretty quickly that you have to, uh, put your mu muscles through atrophy to the point where it hurts for your arms to grow or your legs to grow. So I see our industry no different. Flip side of retention and creating that environment where people wanna be a part of it.

You see a lot, uh, and hear a lot of people talk about burnout being something that they're experiencing. Why do you think people experience burnout in the trades? Hmm. Uh, so health and wellness in our space and in many industries, you just can't enforce it. Uh, and I, and I had this conversation with someone the other day.

You can't enforce it, but you should at least endorse it. And we don't. We don't. Right? We, uh, and I'm not, and not to say this isn't helpful for people. We say, well, if you're going through a mental health crisis, here's a number and best of luck. Uh, my question to that is, yeah. That, that's should be like, that's like a last resort.

You know? That's a last resort. Why, why don't we have any systems in place or, or anything we could at least offer, you know, um. Why don't we have, uh, you know, any kind of conversations around health and wellness, fitness, career, longevity, and what that could look like, and why can't we bring in somebody who is very, very, uh, knowledgeable on the topic to speak to our workforce for an hour, hour and a half during like a lunch and learn, bring 'em to the site during the lunch to get these guys excited about what their lives could look like.

I don't think it's ever been prioritized. Uh, I prioritized it. Again, my, my, my father was very big into health and wellness. He was a, a professional bodybuilder, a professional athlete, competed in the nationals as an amateur boxer. So I had that constant mentorship. Again, it goes back to that mentorship piece, and I saw.

Uh, the life that he lived, and I saw how strong he was and I saw how he looked and how he, he had this strong, uh, he com his presence was just like commanding. And I liked it as a kid also to mention, I grew up watching Rocky Rambo Terminator, and those were like my heroes, you know? Yeah. Uh, so I was like, those are the guys I'm gonna be like today.

Our, our superheroes don't really look the same. We have the Avengers, not too crazy about them myself, but, um, the, the point I'm trying to make is I don't think we've prioritized it, and I just think we need to have more conversations around it. Again, I know we can't enforce it, but we should endorse it.

Yeah. And physical health is one thing. You can look great on the outside, but mental health is a whole different issue and it's something that's not quite as visible. But, uh, have you had experiences in your different leadership roles where, uh, you noticed that one of your team members maybe was struggling, and how did you approach that and what could people learn from that?

Yeah, man, I, I love that question. So, uh, there, there was a situation that I had experienced in my early twenties where, uh, one of my journeymen, uh, had taken his own life and, and that had a, a profound impact on me. That was the first time I ever experienced anything like that. Um, I didn't know how to navigate it emotionally.

It, it was something that, it was a weight that was almost transferred and not, not, not to make this about me, but when that had happened, I had felt that burden. This was an individual I was sitting next to every single day, having coffee with and having conversations about family. But a part of me knew something was, something was off, I didn't feel at the time.

And I think this has to do with lack of maturity to, to ask the right questions. I, I felt I wasn't, it was at a place for me to interject myself. I'm this 20 something year old kid, and this is a 50 something year old man. Who, who am I to ask him like, is he okay? And after that happened, uh, Kev, I told myself I would never let that happen again.

As long as, as long as I was, I have breath in me. If, if I can do something and I see something, I will do it. So a lot of that didn't really take much for me. And when I, when I started operating at a leadership capacity, I went, okay, what could I do to maybe mitigate this? What could I do to maybe try and recognize it a little bit earlier than, uh, before all these other things start to compound and something like that happens again.

So at no direction or uh, no one told me to do this, I did it on my own every day. I made sure we did a team huddle. To this day, if you sent me out in the field and I ever became a field leader again, I'm gonna do it. And it's at my own discretion. Whether the company likes it or not, it's gonna happen.

We're doing it for at least 10, 15 minutes a day. We do stretch and flex. Why can't we have a conversation? And what I would do is I'd, I'd go around and I'd make sure if I was a super, my foreman would do this as well. I want you to go to everybody. I want you to, guys, I want you to ask everyone, how's everybody doing?

Ask the group. I want you to ask everybody, how are you guys doing today? Every Monday when we huddle up, how is everybody's weekend? Um, if you're a leader and you are operating a leadership capacity, you should be able to read the room. You should be able to tell whether people are fully locked in, they're fully focused, or if they're dealing with something you, I can't tell you how many times in doing that, I've had an individual pull me to the side of, Hey, Josh, can I talk to you for a second?

I said, yeah, no problem. And it was always the person that I thought it was. For the most part, um, because I put them in a position where they could be vulnerable and I was, weren't willing to be vulnerable. Many would say, Josh, how was your weekend? Say, oh man, dude, I'm, I, I had a, a long weekend man. I, I worked all weekend.

I'm a little tired. And there was just this, this openness, transparency, communication. And they felt, they could say, man, I had, I had this, this thing going on with my kid. My kid got sick. And then another guy or another guy would say, man, yeah, you know what? I had it, my, my kid's not feeling good too.

Something going around. And before you know it, there's this organic like, conversation that's happening and there's, now you build community because you're, you're adding a human element. It's not just work, work, work. And I know some people may hear this and go, oh, that, oh, that's silly. But I can tell you that just opening the floor to those types of conversations could reveal some pretty, pretty incredible stuff.

That's such an incredible story, Josh, because, you know, it takes a lot of vulnerability for you to also share where you're at, but that also, it gives people that comfort level to share, um, you know, what's top of mind for them. And it, it creates an environment. You know, we use these words like psychological safety, but that's exactly what, what it's doing is creating an environment where people feel safe to, to share those, um, those things.

And not only does that help with extreme circumstances, but just day-to-day safety. How much, how much, um, or I guess the question would be. Related to injuries, do you feel like injuries, accidents, um, serious injuries and fatalities are oftentimes related to people's, you know, heads not being totally in the game.

And, you know, you're, I don't think it's necessarily complacency. I, I just think we have all these competing priorities and pressures that oftentimes compete for that awareness and being fully present when we're doing the work. Do you see that as part of the equation? Yeah. So most of the injuries I've seen, thankfully, I, I had one, um, one experience in my life where it was, you know, and it was, it was not, it was me.

The complacency was there, and it could have been pretty serious, but it wasn't just one time. Thankfully it never happened again. But as I stepped into leadership, I saw that, uh, most of the injuries, if not all, were preventable. And they were basically because of complacency or someone's head was not fully in the game.

And this also ties to that team huddle. A lot of the work that I used to do in New York City was, well, when I wasn't building bakeries, right. You know, we're talking large infrastructure. So we're climbing the Brooklyn Bridge. Uh, we're, we're in the Freedom Tower. Uh, we're, we're lighting up the Empire State Building.

So there, there is, I mean, marginal room for error. And, and safety is obviously paramount. We're dealing with high, high voltage systems, utility systems, and all it takes is one wrong move. And I felt that as a leader, if I am putting people in these high risk environments. I'm taking ownership over their safety 110%.

As a leader and our and the IBW Local three made sure of it, if something happened to someone on your team, you as the foreman, you as a super were held accountable. You needed to make sure that you put every single system in place. So this thing did not happen. But even with that, I would say that most of the time it would be complacency that created an injury or maybe a near miss or because the person just had something else on their mind.

But I also felt that it was my responsibility, my responsibility, to look at a person and say, are you good to climb? Are you good to go up there? Are you good to tie that in? Even if we had all the systems in place. And social cues are really important as a leader. Over time, you start to figure this things out.

When you look at someone, if you get that deer in headlights look or you feel like they're looking through you, maybe that needs to be a private conversation. Say, Hey, are you good? Do you need to sit down? Do we need to make a phone call? Or do you need to go home? And I can give, I can tell you more times than not, when I've done that, it's always been, I, I, I can't do it for whatever reason.

It could be personal. Um, it could be, uh, just maybe the skillset wasn't there and I delegated something that they weren't ready to do. Um, so again, falls back on leadership. It's my responsibility to figure that out and set everybody up for success. That's so well said Josh. And I know that you've been an athlete your whole life and you care about keeping That's right.

Taking care of your body. Uh, you know, we talk about workforce readiness and I think about that almost like athletic readiness. It's like, what are you doing to be prepared to perform at the highest level? So it could be, you know, the food you eat, it could be the, you know, your hydration level. It could be, you know, so many different things that impact somebody's ability to be physically and mentally present.

What are some of the things that you, uh, think are important for people to hear related to that physical aspect of being ready to do the work? Work? Yeah, so my father always told me as a young man, son, you set and you hold the standard you set and hold the standard. So when I stepped into leadership. I always felt I needed to be like John Rambo.

And still to this day, I, when I walk into a room, I want people to go, who's this guy? Right? This guy's in pretty good shape, and he takes care of himself. He's presentable. And so for me, what would happen, what would happen, and this'll kind of tie to your question, is I, people would come to me on the job.

It would, it wouldn't be everybody, maybe one or two people that'd say, dude, like, how do you like, like what are you doing? Like, what are you doing to stay in shape? And I'd say, oh, I work out three days a week. And, you know, I, I try to eat well and, you know, I try to, you know, stay, stay in, in, in the word as a Christian, it's really, you know, really my faith is my foundation and I believe everything else kind of branches out from there.

So when you start to say those things, people start to go, huh? Like, what do you do to work out? And that opens up a bigger conversation. I've been talking about it, I've been thinking about it, but I've never really, like, I don't, I don't know what to do. And all of a sudden now you start to create this interest in other people.

You, you create like this buy and well, if he can do it, what? Like why can't I, what's my excuse? Right? He's a foreman. He's a super, he is probably working more than everybody here. Um, but I just think. We need to come up with, we need to do something, uh, for some people. Uh, we could address, we could address physical health and wellness by just working out a couple days a week.

Um, you know, what you put in your body, uh, is absolutely gonna impact how you perform. Getting your eight hours, getting your, you know, your seven to eight hours, you know, sleep every single night. We know how important that is. And the impacts, uh, it can, it can have on an individual. So I share those things with people.

I share 'em on the job site. Uh, and I think when you create a standard as a leader, I'm a true believer. Other people will follow. Um, and, and that's the standard I choose to hold to this day. You use the term industrial athlete. Why should people think of themselves as industrial athletes? This is a long man's game.

This is a long man's game. You know, our, our work is tough and, uh, as much as I love to talk about, uh, upward mobility and people coming into the office or stepping in leadership, unfortunately those are the minority, right? Uh, most people are gonna, you know, go through their apprenticeship program. They're gonna work on their tools, and there is nothing wrong with that, I think, I think that's great.

And it's really up to the individual. So what is your plan now that, that's tough. That's tough. You, you need to figure out what are you gonna do to set yourself up for success? If your plan is to work in the field for 30, 40 plus years, you're gonna be on your feet every single day. You're gonna be using your back every single day, right?

You're gonna be working anywhere from seven hours a day to 12 hours a day. Like, what is your strategy to support yourself? Most people don't think about it. Again, we can't enforce it, but we can endorse it. We can have these conversations to support our people, and I just think we need to do a much better job at that.

You know, the average athlete, uh, trains or competes about two to four hours every day. But like you said, a lot of these folks, I mean, they're on their feet seven to 12 hours a day. Why should people focus on training for the work as well and maintaining that physical, um, stamina, the, the physical strength, uh, for the longevity of a career?

Because I oftentimes hear people say, man, I'm on my feet all day long. Why should I go to the gym? Why should I exercise? Why should I do all this other stuff? I, I do that all day every day. But what's the difference in your mind between, uh, being active, working and being active to train for longevity? So I think, I think they kind of go hand in hand.

You know, if, if I have this conversation with someone and they say like, dude, I don't got time to go to the gym. I say, well dude, that definitely, that absolutely impacts your health in the future. Do you care about your family? When I start to say things like this, there's either one or two things happen, although people can get offended by that and, and that's just the reality.

Or they say, you know what, man? You're right, you're right. I have a, I have a good friend of mine right now. Uh, he's in his mid forties and he, over the last year and a half, he just start, started prioritizing his health. He's a foreman in New York City. He's been with his company for, for quite some time.

He's operating at a high level, and we had a conversation about this the other day. I told him, I said, man, you look amazing. I mean, night and day transformation. He, he said, Josh, this has changed my life and my family's life, and it's such a. Incredible way. My kids see this, and I know this is affecting them in a good way.

Him and his wife are both going to the gym. It impacted her. There is a like a ripple effect that happens when you start to take ownership over your own health and wellness. Again, I know you can be healthy physically, but there could be challenges here. But as it pertains to the physical side of things, if the job site is gonna be hard, right?

So you have to train yourself for those conditions. Because over time they're not gonna get easier. That's the reality. Your body over time is gonna start to break down and you need to build the muscle mass. You need to build the bone destiny, bone density to sustain. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a scientist, but that's, that's just what it is, right?

You need to prepare your body, uh, for that constant trauma that's gonna happen over the years. And then also in doing that allows you to continue to be present for your family rather than coming home, sitting on the couch and, you know, I don't know, eating an ENT men's donut and saying, well, I don't have time to work out.

But yet, yeah, you got time to watch your favorite team, uh, lose a game on a Sunday, right? You have time. There's no excuse for it. If you truly care about your future and your family and how you show up for your children, you need to start taking care of this. My grandfather was a pipe fitter for over 40 years, raised cattle on the side, and he was so broken down by the time he was in his mid sixties, like he could hardly stand up.

And that's honestly what motivated me to move from sports medicine to working with industrial athletes, just because I, I saw him live with this mentality of like, I'm just getting older, you know, I, you know, I paid my dues. Like, there are all these things that we tell ourselves about, you know, we should expect to get to the end of our careers broken down.

But I'm a firm believer that if you're physically active all day long, if you, let's say properly position your body when you're performing physical work, it should build you up rather than break you down. What are your thoughts about people's expectations on where they should be at the end of their career in terms of, you know, being healthy or being broken down?

So I, I think we, again, we set the standard for what our life looks like, you know? Um, I think, I think, I don't believe we can control everything, right? We, we can't. But I do believe we can control what we put in our bodies. We can control how we maintain our bodies. So why wouldn't you do that? We have to stop making excuses.

You have time. You can do it. Oh, I'm just old. I'm just tired. That's nonsense. Uh, my father is an incredible case study for this. He's 83 years old. He's in the gym three to four days a week. He's jogging one to five miles every single week. He is committed to the process. If I saw, if I told my father, yeah.

If I told him, dad, are you broken down or you beat up? He would look at me and probably say, son, I will outpace you any day of the week. And, and, and here's the truth, here's the truth, Kev. I would never challenge my dad. I have, I still have no clue what this man's capabilities are, but I do know that he is committed and he has zero excuses whatsoever, takes full ownership over his health.

Yes, I will say there are things you can't control. I think we, we both know that, right? Um, but why wouldn't you control what you can? And that is what you put in your body and how you take care of it. I'm a firm believer in that. Let's talk about what you put in your body too. 'cause I oftentimes will go to a lead, a workshop at a operations base, and you see all these just gorgeous jacked up trucks that are, you know, out in the parking lot, and you're like, man, these people take such good care of their trucks.

And then you walk in and they're drinking three monster energy drinks and a Snickers for breakfast. And it's like, man, you had never put crappy gas in your vehicle, but yet look at what you're putting in your body. That's right. What are your thoughts on, on nutrition? So it, it can be a challenge, you know, um, but again, how committed are you to this?

How, how much does your health mean to you? You, you just, you said something great like, these guys, they pull up with these beautiful trucks, that's their baby, right? They have a company truck that, that's like, almost like, you know, that's like a thing of honor. It's a thing of prestige. But then when you walk out of their truck, man, you got your stomach hanging over your belt.

Your, your, your boots aren't even laced up. You're beat up, you're limping, you're tired. Like, I don't know. My, my logic was always this, I always wanted to be a strong representation of the brand or the company that I worked for. Uh, my, my boss, my prior boss used to tell me, Josh, I love that I could send you to the pits of the MTAI could send you into the subway, or I could send you into the nicest building to the nicest client that we have.

You're like a Swiss Army knife, and I love that about you. You know? And, uh, I, I leaned into that, that made me feel so good. Like, man, this, you know, I'm here. Send me pick, pick something. I will, I will go. Right. Um, but I just, I, I took that as a. You know, I took pride in that. And, and to this day, I take pride in that.

When people come up to me and they say, dude, you're in great shape. You're healthy. Like, like, what do you do? You know, not that I don't have my own challenges like everybody else. I don't want to get up some days, I don't want to go to the gym, but I created a mindset that keeps me accountable and that allows for that ownership over my life.

So, okay, we just need to get away from excuses. And the more leaders we have who set that precedence within a, within a company or within their own life, the better the next generation is gonna be. Well said. I oftentimes say that failing to plan is planning to fail. And when it comes to like the food and the fuel that we, we put into our body, oftentimes it's 'cause, you know, we run out the door, we aren't prepared, we don't grab stuff at home.

And so then you're hungry, you stop at a gas station and you have, you know, pretty limited good options. What is, what is your go-to when it comes to just being prepared to get good nutrition throughout the day when you know you're gonna be working long hours or in a remote location? Yeah, so, I mean, man, I'm guilt.

I'm guilty of the monster energies. I like my white monster every once in a while, uh, you know, but, uh, my go-to has, has typically always been obvi hydration. Try to, I try to do that half a gallon a day. I've been. I've been slacking a little bit. I'll be honest with you. I've been slacking, but I try to focus on hydration 'cause we know how much of our body's made up of that and we need it.

Um, so that, that's one. Uh, number two, I'd say I try to stay up on protein. I, I mean, I'm, I'm doing a little bit of a, I'm going down the rabbit hole right now on protein and, and how it impacts your body and, and how much consumption you need, the older you get and how it affects your bones, your muscle mass, so on and so forth.

So I think just making sure you're getting that protein in, that's really big. I try to stay away from the plant stuff personally. Right. Uh, but, uh. Uh, I love having my protein shake with me. I mean, this is easy, right? Just water, a protein shake. I mean, it's a powder. You put it in a bag, you put it in a shaker cup, and then you go set that up for two times a day if you're on the go.

And then maybe some type of, uh, some type of energy bar, not high in sugar. I try to stay away from anything that's high in sugar and just keep it, you know, what's that kiss? Uh, keep it simple, stupid. Keep it simple. It's not, yeah, it's not very corporate. Not very corporate or polished to say, but that's just the reality.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. I don't have to grill. You know, you got the guys who like grill chicken every day. They're doing like brown rice and kudos to that man. These guys are always in shape. There's always one or two. There's always a guy like that on the job who sits in the corner with his Tupperware, who's got arms that are bigger than mine.

He is got a six pack. And what is he doing? He is eating his brown rice. He's eating his sweet potato and his chicken all day long, but. You know, that work speaks for itself. And typically that guy is like a unit man. So Ku kudos to him, but just, just keep, keep it simple. You don't need to go into this whole crazy die out workout regimen, but ha have a system stick to it, and then it's gonna pay, uh, huge dividends.

That's great. And from a recovery standpoint, what is, what are your go-to activities to, because I always tell people recovery is almost more important than the training itself or a hard days of work. You know, if you don't focus on recovery, you start to fall into a breakdown pattern and then, you know, your body just can't repair the way that it's supposed to.

And that's, that's where I think people oftentimes fall into just chronically feeling, uh, stiff and sore. What are some of the things that you found helpful? So sleep. Sleep number one, man. Um, I didn't think sleep was that big of a deal, um, until maybe five, six years ago when I was working nights. It was this LaGuardia redevelopment project.

It's, it was massive. And, uh, we were working nights. We were doing 10, 12 hour nights and I, I was not sleeping during the day. I'm one of those people. I just, when I'm up, I'm up. If the sun's up, I'm up. That's who I am. Uh, and I went to a doctor to get blood work and I got my, I got my physical and the doctor called me in for like a second consultation and I'm like, Ooh, this isn't good.

Usually it's just a phone call, like, what's going on here? And they, they asked me straightforward. Josh, are you sleeping? It's like, look, look at me. No, I woke, I woke up and went to this thing, right? I was like, no, definitely not. They said, tell us a little bit about your diet. And it was exactly like you said, man, it, it was the seven 11 special, you know, a bag of Doritos and, I don't know, man, some hurt and protein bar and you know, all this other junk.

And they said, listen, you know, we, we recommend you do one of two things. You either you get more sleep or you go back on days. We know that there's a money compa, you know, there's a money component here. You like working nights, it's all time and a half, so you're making the sacrifice, but what cost is it at your own body?

Uh, and they shared some, some metrics with me and people who work night shifts and how that impacts their longevity. And they only needed to tell me that once I, I called my foreman and, and I said, Hey man, listen, if there's an opportunity for me to go back on days, I'd rather be back on days. So to answer the question for me, it's making sure you're getting your eight hours.

I have a 2-year-old, so. It's not looking too good lately, but, but I'm doing what I can. Uh, so, so for me, that's probably the most important thing. And then also time with my family seems to be a really re really great mental recovery piece for me. Shutting off my phone, totally disconnecting from social media.

As much as I love to get on LinkedIn and create content, I have to take that time away, or even even calls with my team and, and be present for my family. That helps me here tremendously. So between sleep, spending time with, uh, my family has been, uh, tremendous. Thanks for giving us a little window of what, uh, has worked for you.

I wanna shift gears and talk real briefly about the difference between, um, workforce development and just compliance. I think so often, you know, companies will think that they're investing in the workforce, but it's just checking boxes and, uh, how do companies invest in their workforce in ways that not only, you know, maybe check the box, but also really help nurture their growth.

So I believe you need to create systems that put people first a lot, you know, much of what we talked about, whether if it's attraction, uh, you know, developing people and then they continue support when you mobilize 'em. H that's not an HR process, right? I, I think, I think with, without attacking hr, I think the most of us know what HR is in place for, right?

They, they gotta keep the company looking good, you know, on, uh, on multiple platforms, right? They want to make sure that the image and the brand stays, stays in alignment. Uh, but, you know, internally, you know, people need to be poured into and they need to be invested in. And I don't think, I think traditionally as it pertains to construction workers, we've been, we've been left behind most construction companies.

HR has very little to do with the field unless there's a, unless there's a big issue, right? So workforce development has to step in. Why? Because who knows the field better than the people who have been there, who have operated at a very entry level role. From an apprentice to someone like myself who's owned his own company to superintendent, so on and so forth, leverage that experience in-house so you don't have to worry about what's happening.

You need to leverage people who have been there and done it and also can bridge that relatability gap. Uh, HR and all those compliance, uh, uh, systems and processes. There's no rate relatability there. If they go out into the field, they wouldn't know where to start. They wouldn't know who to have a conversation with, and isn't a knock to them essentially.

That's really not their scope. When you have people who are on workforce development, I could walk on the job site, not know one person by the time I leave, know the entire crew, know the gc, uh, know the customer, so on and so forth. Why? Because I've been there and I know what needs to happen. So again, I think I said this earlier, you need someone to be able to bridge that gap.

There's workforce development for you. How do safety teams also move away from just compliance? Check the box to training that's actually meaningful that people engage with and, uh, can put into practice. I think it's just having conversations and building relationship with the field. Uh, I think as companies start to grow and start to scale, one of the biggest challenges they see is they start to see the silo thing.

Safety is their own thing. Workforce development is their own thing. The field is their own thing. It's like, no, no, no, we all gotta come together. How can we support one another? I had a, I had a conversation with a friend who's, who's in safety at Miller, and he was sharing some of his challenges with me, and the first thing I said to him is, how can I help you?

And his response was, Josh, I need you to connect with field leaders and let's see what we can put together, and I can bring my leaders in. We can bring your leaders in, and we can talk about SOPs and what that looks like for individuals to prevent some of these injuries that could potentially be happening.

Right? We don't wanna see any more near misses. Thankfully we're not seeing that. But there is a, there is a gap in communication. Can you be that bridge? Let's do it, man. We're here to win. Josh, you've basically been in the trades your whole life. I mean, with the dad who, uh, was it in the trades his entire career?

You know, you've been doing the work, uh, for the last 20 years. What is something that has you really excited right now, uh, for the future of the trades? I love the unknown. You know, it's, it's a really interesting time to be in there. Is work booming throughout this country, you know, um, typically what we see in, in the construction space, it's one market.

Like the northeast could be really hot for whatever reason, and in the southeast could be. Right now, the country is booming with work. Obviously we know with the, with AI and these data centers, it's, it's happening man. It's real. So for me, I, I love the fact that it's unknown. I love that workforce development is this new and exciting thing that everyone is trying to figure out.

And I'm more excited that I've been able to spearhead it and kind of, you know, uh, use my experience in my voice to, you know, support, support businesses. Obviously support Miller Electric and help the industry as a whole. So, I mean, to answer the question, Kev, I, I love mystery. I love, uh, kind of like there's.

You know, we really don't have a strategy here, but let's figure it out. That's my wheelhouse. And I, I'm an optimistic guy. Glass. Glass is half full. I really think things are gonna head in a good direction only if we put people first. And I believe we're beginning to now do that more than ever. Well said.

Josh, any final thoughts that you'd like to leave our audience with? Yeah. You know, if, uh, you know, no matter what role you are in, in the construction space, from an apprentice down to a, a dig ditcher, uh, to superintendent, to a business owner, you can take a mindset of servant leadership. You can adopt that.

Each one, teach one. If there is someone who is in front of you that you believe or maybe you don't believe needs support, give it to 'em anyway. Ask them, how's your day going? How can I support you? Doesn't matter what level you're at. Adopt a servant leadership mindset, and I truly believe the RUS can take care of itself.

Joshua, what stands out in this conversation for me is that safety, performance and workforce development aren't separate conversations. They're the same one. And when organizations invest in their people in the right way, they don't just prevent incidents, they build confidence, judgment and courages that lasts.

And that career longevity is, I think, so important. So thank you for bringing clarity to what real workforce development actually looks like in the field. Uh, we're gonna definitely leave your, uh, contact information in the show notes. 'cause I know that people are gonna have a ton of questions about this.

And I know people can also find you on LinkedIn. You're. I think probably one of the best voices out there. Uh, every single time you post something, I check it out, read the full context, and you're just spot on every time. So thank you for, uh, investing. It means a lot, man. Thank you. Yeah, really appreciate it.

Well, if this conversation changed how you think about safety, leadership, or workforce development, the best way to support the show is to follow or subscribe to the WorkReady Podcast on your favorite platform, and share this episode with leaders responsible for developing people, not just managing outcomes.

We're gonna continue this conversation inside the WorkReady community where Josh is gonna join us for an extended practical conversation on building workforce readiness in rural operations. The link is gonna be in the show notes. Membership is completely free. Until next time, take care of yourself, take care of your team, and stay work ready.