How Leaders Face Fear and Win

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Eric Capatulic's story begins with a moment that would break most people. A helicopter crash that took six of his

fellow Marines. But what defines him isn't what happened that day. It's what

he decided to do after. A tough person has an ability

to stay mission focused in the face of physical, mental, and emotional adversity. That's that's how we define

tough. This is the Work Ready podcast.

If you're out there putting in long shifts, carrying heavy loads, and still trying to save energy for home, this

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Hello and welcome to the Work Ready Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Kevin Rendall. So happy to be here today with

Eric Capatulic. You grew up in Connecticut. Uh mom was a teacher, dad was a police officer. Tell us a little

bit about your growing up and how those uh those things shaped who you are today.

Yeah, I I appreciate the question because as a old battalion commander used to say uh a man and and I use that

term universally person. uh this was a Marine Corps infantry battalion so it

was men at the time but but uh it holds true for all of us but a person is a sum

of their experiences and one of those experiences certainly and and an incredibly important one is

your childhood development and boy with that a lot of us either just get lucky

or unlucky well I happen to be one of the lucky ones who as you said had a dad

who's a policeman moms a school teacher. Uh we grew up on a 100 acre farm here in Connecticut. Um we didn't have a ton of

money. I don't know if what the socioeconomic background is of many of your listeners, but if they had a dad

who's a policeman, a mom's a school teacher, they'll know that you probably did not have really lavish vacations or

um a dream home necessarily or or even a pool in the back. But we got the really

important things, or at least I did, which was a lot of love and a lot of guidance and safety.

Yeah. I I love that. And I'd your book you go into great detail about core

values and we'll dive into that but um you know you can share what your core

values are but I I think one thing that stood out to me as I was preparing for this interview. I remember you telling a

story about you're 15 years old and you were doing a landscaping project with I think it was your wrestling coach.

Yeah. and uh and things just weren't quite right and you you couldn't get

this one rock into place and it just it festered in in the back of your mind. Can you share that story? I I love it

because I think it it it's a metaphor for who you are and as I go through your life, it just I keep seeing that

pattern. Yeah. Well, thanks. So do I. You know, I think back to that a lot. I would like to start though um with the truth uh

which is I was never a wrestler. Now, the gentleman that I was working with, he was our high school wrestling coach,

but he was also the college counselor and uh I was never tough enough doctor

to to be a wrestler. Um I played basketball like you have to be a true tough guy to be a wrestler, right? I'm

I'm a fake tough guy. So, I played hoops and and you know, you know, wave to the crowd type of thing. So, blame my

teammates. So, uh, but in the summers I did work building stone walls,

uh, with our high school wrestling coach and

we're bu and we did it all by hand. And on this one project, we just had this monster stone and and we just couldn't

get it to sit right in the in the stone wall as the base of this stone wall. So,

when at the end of the day, he just said, "Hey, Eric, we're tired. Go home. we'll we'll deal with this thing in the

morning. Well, I I went home and and but this stone was I couldn't sleep. I literally it was

just bothering me that it beat me. So, got back on my bike,

cruised a couple miles, like in my head it was like, you know, 20 miles. It was probably a mile and a half, but in my head it's 20 miles, you know, back down

to the stone wall. and me by myself with my headlamp on, you know, just worked

and worked and worked and finally got it into position and went home. Next

morning, I show up and and my college counselor, the the wrestling coach is looking at the stone wall the way you

Pinocchio's dad looks at it, like, "What in the heck happened here last night? Like, how did this happen?" And I just said, I I couldn't let it beat me. Like,

I I had to come and get this done. I don't know why. I mean, I mean, I was just 15 years old, right? I didn't think

about core values at the time or any of that stuff. And I think that that uh is

probably a little bit of nature and probably a little bit of nurture, both, right? Like most things in life. And

that idea of just finishing the job,

the last 5% has been a constant in in my life

throughout my life. And and by the way, Mr. Mjon ended up uh writing my college

essay that got me into the Naval Academy about that one story. Wow. Yeah. And I again then you go into the

Naval Academy, uh you play lacrosse and then you graduate and then go into the

Marine Special Forces. Talk to us about that theme of like to me that almost feels like the genesis of

this toughness. You you say you're not tough, but I I would disagree with you,

but just this this grit and this resilience. I' I'd love to hear a little bit more about how that helped you from

a development standpoint. Yeah, thanks. I you know, yeah, look, I I I joke about the the toughness piece.

I I probably think it is maybe one of my hallmarks, certainly one of my values, core values. Um, but if you were to ask

me what is my number one core value,

it I think it would be discipline. And I do what I say I'm going to do.

And that's not just to other for others. I do what I say I'm going to do to

myself. You're going to do this. And I I commit to it and I do it. the

uh you know with the with the decision to go to the Naval Academy and and that really has been a

hallmark throughout the rest of my life which you know I went there it really wasn't for some love of country or to

serve in the military. I mean, I'm kind of a, you know, young no nothing 17-year-old kid at the time deciding

where you're going to go to college. And ultimately, I chose to go there because

it scared me a little bit. Like, I didn't know if I could do it. And that

um that is something that has driven me my

whole life. like I choose to do things that make me a little bit nervous. Now,

those things that make me nervous, that that's I think much different than like a thrill seeker. Um,

you know, certainly I don't break the law, right? I mean, any of that stuff. It's just, yeah, hey, can I do this? And

this desire and and really need to get outside my comfort zone. And that has

been a constant. That is why I went to the naval academy. It's why I chose to

to go in the Marines. I was nervous. I didn't know if I could be a Marine officer. It's why I chose to go in

special operations. It's it's, you know, it's why I got out of the Marines. It made me nervous. I know it's tough for a

lot of listeners to believe this, but whatever you do becomes comfortable. And

it had become comfortable for me. And uh now the Marines are awesome and the and

the services are awesome that they'll always keep giving you a different job to to get you outside your comfort zone, but that is one of the reasons why I got

out. Hey, I I want to, you know, go to business school. I want to try to start my own company. It makes me nervous. So

that really has been consistent throughout my life. And uh really

um I tell my kids all the time, don't don't go to the Naval Academy. Don't go into

the Marines. Don't don't do any of that stuff unless you want to do so. Don't do the things that dad did just because you

know dad did them. Do the things you want to do. I do hope that that mindset

they use that same mindset in whatever they choose to do in life. Yeah, that

mindset is so powerful. And on December 9th, 1999, uh there was a a pretty dark

day in American history. I was actually a freshman in college at PointLoma Nazarine University.

Wow. Uh that um that tragedy happened right off of Pointloma. It did.

And so I I remember it very very clearly. Yes. Uh a helicopter was coming in. You're doing a training exercise. came in

pretty hot and low and then got tangled up in in the netting on the side of the boat, right? Um and unfortunately uh several seven of

the 18 members on that flight uh perished. But can you tell us a little bit about that? You you shared in your

keynote address, but definitely I would imagine uh a pivotal time. The other thing too is you know a lot of our

listeners they're working on the front lines. They see tragedy, they see uh death at times. they they experience

hard situations and um you know maybe even share just like some encouraging

words of of how you processed that and worked through that experience. Yeah, sure. I really appreciate the

question. Um, yes. On December 9th, 1999, we were training, my my platoon

and I, we were training for upcoming deployment to the Persian Gulf when the helicopter that myself and 10 of my

force reconnaissance Marines was riding in, uh, rather than coming in to the

ship in a 60oot hover over it where we kick a fast rope down and and slide down

the fast rope, take over the ship, rather than uh coming into a 60oot hover over the ship, we were practicing taking

over. or it came in too low and too fast and struck the side of it. Uh when we

take ships down, Kevin, we would wear between 50 and 75 pounds of gear, weapons, equipment,

ammunition. The helicopter pilot, recognizing his error, pulled on the

collective, which would typically give lift to a helicopter. But on that particular day, the back left wheel had

become entangled in this thick metal netting that surrounds many cargo

vessels, causing the helicopter with its back left wheel still stuck to become

vertical in the air, invert on itself, and then plunge into the Pacific Ocean.

Uh ultimately, six of the 10 of us on board, uh six of my 10 teammates lost

their life that day. Definitely getting back to the comment I

made at the start of this uh conversation. We are all a sum of our experiences and

that is certainly a pivotal one in in my life.

A couple of things there surrounding it and and boy there's I don't know if we

have enough time today to go over all of them, but but a couple of things stand out from it.

Number one, uh my commanding officer

when we had new Marines join our team and we're going to deploy to the Persian Gulf, his guidance, Colonel Coats,

Robert Coats, legend in the Marine Corps, uh his guidance was the your

Marines, the special operations warriors, like yeah, okay, something tragic happened. It's sad. They They

didn't join the They didn't join this unit to be babyed. They didn't join this unit to sit on their butt. They They

joined this unit like you did to be challenged. It's your job to continue

challenging them. A little bit of or a lot of know your

troops, know your people, know their why. uh important on the 70°ree and

sunny days. Really important when all heck is breaking loose, right? Number one. Number two, one of the best things

in a sea of bad decisions that I've made as a leader starting as a father and as a husband and then as a business leader

and then as a marine officer. all these things in a sea of mistakes that I've made with one of the best was

my unit that platoon had to do the unit that we were training when that accident

occurred. We had to do it again within a month before we deployed. That's the way it

works. You have to get qualified or signed off on all these different missions that you're going to go do in

the Gulf. So within one month's time, we've got six new teammates on our team and they're all going to do this event.

Well, I had broken my leg in the crash and could couldn't could not fast rope on it. So the

commanding general had asked me had had told me, you know, hey Cap, why don't you just come up in my helicopter and

you'll be in an overwatch position. Well, Kevin, the big difference here is

his helicopter is just going to stay in hover over the whole event. my Marines,

those two helicopters are going to go and do the same exact flight mission

that they just saw six of their 10 buddies die doing

and I readily accepted. Well, the night before we go, I didn't

sleep at all. And that following morning, I go on the general's helicopter and I didn't sleep the night

before because I I knew what the right answer was, but

I also knew I was scared. Scared. And

get on the general's helicopter. And at the last possible moment, I said, "Sir,

I can't stay here. I need to go on that helicopter." Which would be one of the two helicopters with my Marines. and I

crutched on over there with my crutches and got on board their helicopter.

And you know, that was a pivotal moment for me as a leader because

all leaders say, "Hey, I'll never ask you to do something that I'm not willing to do myself."

And and that I think is generally true. But I had an opportunity to prove it.

And I proved it in that moment when everybody is scared. Okay. number one.

Uh number two, when I talk about proving it, I proved

it to myself. Like I went to the Naval Academy because I didn't want the fear of failure to

beat me. Well, I I went into the Marines because I didn't want the fear of failure to beat me in special

operations. Well, then on that morning,

I didn't let it beat me. And I haven't done anything in my life to include

getting caught in an avalanche on Mount Everest equal the fear I felt that morning about

to get back on a helicopter that I had barely survived on 3 weeks earlier.

Those things for your listeners, you know, doing those things. And also, by the way, I have to be completely

transparent. We talked about it all the time. The the helicopter crash, we were

together. We we talked about it. We talked about our loss. Uh we we we

celebrated our teammates who we did lose in in a way that they would want to have been celebrated.

Uh and and all of those things were big things that either I did or we did or I

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Man, that I so appreciate you sharing that. And as I think about, you know, again,

our our listeners, a common theme is a tragedy happens and no one wants to talk

about it. And maybe even expand on that just a little bit more of the importance

of truthtelling. Number one, like truthtelling, I I'm scared. I have fear about this. And then facing that fear.

And number two is the importance of brotherhood, sisterhood, you know, and being able to actually verbalize that,

talk about it, and work through it collectively because there are a lot of crews out there that have, you know, those situations happen

and and it just no one ever talks about it again. What What's important about like working through that in community?

Yeah. Well, a couple of things here, right? First of all, uh I'll I'll tell you, people ask me all the time like,

Kev, how how do you like move on from something like that or or whatever. And I hate to use the term moving on. Um I

don't know, it seems kind of disingenuous or a little bit uh I mean, it's never really left me. I mean, I

think about it, I mean, a lot, right? So, so uh what I hope is is that I don't

want that event to define me, okay? Like it it stays with me. I haven't moved on

from it, but it doesn't define me. Um, and how do you do that? Yes. Uh, getting

back to the exactly the points you just brought up is admitting

what happened, your fear of it, your of it happening to you. I mean, when you see it, it's just very real. um talking

to your your the your brothers and sisters about it,

you know, all of those things. And by the way, I would definitely suggest, you know, going to receive professional help

for it, too. I mean, that why not? That that has nothing to

do with you being a tough person. I mean, quite frankly, you're you're going to

try to pro I I'd rather be a great the best dad and best husband that I can be than try to prove that I'm tough enough

not to go see a therapist. I mean, that equation does not make sense to me, right? Like I mean I

um Coach Snder, legendary football coach at at at Kansas State football, Hall of

Fame coach, uh he and I got a chance to sit down in his office one day for an hour. This is when he's 80 years old.

And and I got a chance to ask him, "Coach, how do you you know h what would you tell your 30-year-old self about

being a success?" And he said, "Well, Cap, first of all, I'd write down on a piece of paper how you define success.

That that changes through your life. Or it could change through your life. So So

write that down and then write down everything that you do that keeps you

from becoming it. Write down all the people that you associate with that keep you from becoming it. And then edit it

all out of your life. Well, a couple months later, I was watching this special on Alabama football and Kobe

Bryant had gone in to speak to the football team. He said basically the same exact thing to Alabama football

players, right? It really stuck a struck a chord with me. So, you know, to the to

the linemen, the the journeymen, right? Uh, what I would say is write down how you

define success. Well, one of those ways that I define success is being the best and where it starts and really ends with

me is being the best husband and best father that I can be. Well, if I'm doing

something or not doing something that could help me become that, why am I doing that or why am I not doing it?

That's that's ultimately a more important endgame for me. Number one.

Number two, I would also let's take a step back from this though because there

is another piece of this that is vital and we see it constantly

constantly in the energy industry with linemen, gas journeymen, but we see it

in every industry and that is what what did you do leading up to that incident?

See, look, we're on just the nature of the beast. You're in a challenging

environment here. I mean, you're working with things that can kill you or see at

the very least seriously hurt you as as a as a lineman, as a gas journeyman. And

there are other industries certainly the fire department is a big one. The police department is another, right? I mean,

first responders. Okay, fine. So,

are you being great teammates to each other? Meaning,

how do I one of the ways that I has helped me cope with that loss is when

you look at the video of the helicopter crash, nobody should should survive it. Nobody should. the the all the safety

protocols, the equipment, how you do that event, it was changed what felt

like overnight after that accident, right? Nobody should survive what we

went through. Well, look, four of us did. And why did the four of us do so?

Number one, we trained at an incredibly high standard physically, mentally, and

emotionally leading up to it. So yes, six people died, but man, four people

lived that it should be zero. Okay, we trained to an incredibly high standard.

The six people who died, the six men who died, they happened to be sitting in the wrong place in the helicopter. If you

were forward in the helicopter, you died. The the us we we were in the back.

It was easier to get out. We we survived. That's the only separating

distinction. So, nobody should have survived it. It's just that we trained to an incredibly high standard. What I

would ask and challenge every single lineman, every single journeyman, every single fireman, you know, what standard

are you training to? Are you training to a standard where you hope nothing goes

wrong or are you training to a standard expecting the wolf to show up? Okay,

number one. Number two, while you're training andor while you're doing what

you do, are you holding your teammates accountable? You know, Kevin, the number of teams

that we work with that say, "Hey, come on, bring it in. Let's Okay. Hey, at the end of practice, right? Hey, this is

what we need to do better. This is what we did well. Okay, on three family. One, two, three, family." Then we work with that team and we think, "Yeah, that's a

family." All right. That is one dysfunctional family, right?

the lineman, right? The brotherhood, right? Well, I mean, there's a lot of brothers

that I they might be family members to me, but I don't want to associate with. I mean, are are we truly our brother's

keeper? Really, are we? Well, if you're letting somebody

not follow your safety protocols, if you're letting somebody to use PPE

equipment or not use it, if if you're allowing people to be in a bucket truck

and not strap in and you're standing right there, I mean, most of these incidents that occur occur I I

appreciate there's one man, you know, trucks out there and all that stuff, but look, most incidents occur and and

there's another team member or a team leader even standing right next to the person when they get injured or worse

and they chose not to say something. Well, as a true brotherhood, we hold

each other accountable. It can be uncomfortable to do so, but we do so as

a means of making each other better. If you do that, then look,

some bad things can still happen. It doesn't guarantee success. It doesn't. But not doing it, it guarantees failure.

And then you're going to have to live with it. I didn't. I had a choice to say something here and I didn't. You have to

live with that. Thankfully, I don't. Thank you so much for sharing that. As

you say all this, uh, I'm just starting to see these themes from your book, The

Program, come in in to full uh full light. I think we'll we'll jump into that. Uh, I love the quote from

Frederick the Great that you included. He defend he who defends everything defends nothing. And you briefly talked

about uh standards, but let's let's get into core values as the base

and then talk about the difference between standards and goals and holding

each other to the standards because to me that that is so foundational in every every single thing we do. if you could

maybe just start off with the core values and and why it's so important to have that ground you. Yeah, for sure. Thank you for that.

Okay, so first of all, I'm going to get myself in hot water with not only a lot of our clients but a lot of potential

clients because uh it is not unique for an organization in any industry to have

14 core values, 10 core values. Well, look, by definition, 14 cannot be core.

10 cannot be core, right? Just by definition. Now, I think a lot of

organizations do that because it looks nice on a perspectus, right? On a uh,

you know, an investment, you know, the annual report, it it

sounds nice, but it's not core. And what we challenge organizations with, what we

challenge individuals with is figure out what truly is core to you. And remember,

when you try to defend everything, you defend nothing. By making everything

mission critical, nothing is missionritical. So what we challenge organizations and

individuals for is figure out what your three, maybe four. If you want to argue

four, okay, we'll give you four core values. These are my non-negotiables.

If you do a good job of figuring this out, and yes, through the program book is we we there's a a exercise that we

provide to people to help them figure out their core values. Um, we we do

this, you know, as an in-person service with CEOs and and executive teams, but

to not to be a bad salesman, but the truth is, you don't need us. You don't need the book either. Just think about

what your true values are. Talk to your significant other, your spouse, your

kids, the people who work with you. Just ask them what and then think about it

yourself. you'll probably see a bunch of overlap and and really think about it.

In any event, excuse me. Why is this important?

Because your values, that's your true north. When you really understand, so look, I

am selfless, tough, and disciplined. When I think in my life the things that

I'm most proud of, it's because I made a choice that was in alignment with my

values. Conversely, when I think in my life of the things that I've done that I am not

proud of, that I regret, that's because those things were not in

alignment with my core values. We are faced with hundreds of choices every

day. Many of them admittedly we make out of habit, out of hand. But think about

as a husband, think about as a dad, the the number of

choices that I have to make when it comes to my children of

boy, what do we do here? How do I do right? There's no manual for this stuff, right? So instead my thought process is

always based on what's selfless, what's tough, what's disciplined.

It doesn't again it doesn't guarantee success but not you can look you can make choices that are in

you know that do not align with your core values and you could still end up with a pretty good outcome.

But if we're going to do that consistently, our our decisions and our thought

process must be in alignment with our values. So, first of all, we got to know what they are. Three, maybe four. If if

you don't even know what your values are or can't remember them, then they're not core to you. So, really, you know,

making sure you know what your your values are. And then the next step would be defining them. And why do we define

them? Well, getting back to what I said earlier, we're all a sum of our experiences, right? So, for me, you

mentioned earlier, right? My dad's a policeman, my mom's a school teacher. I went to the naval academy, was a athlete most of my life, right? Uh the Marines,

special operation. Well, I have a certain mental picture based on all of those experiences. What a selfless

person does, what a tough person does, what a disciplined person does. But that's based on my experiences.

Everybody has different experiences in life. not right, not wrong, but different. So def not only have those

values, but define them so you know what they mean to you first.

So that's fantastic. So I'm going to recap because I think you did a great job in the book to defining this

process. So what you said is even take a list of like 20 30 words and then go

through and just think okay what are those three maybe four words that resonate with you from a value

standpoint and then do an exercise of saying what does this actually mean for me and how do I live it out in my life

and what I love about your approach too is it's not just waiting for your company to share their core values it's

you have your own personal values and maybe that's even for your family and as you lead your family you're saying the

as a family these are our core values that are 100% and you know it's funny

because when I think about like my spouse and I and when we have uh disagreements right arguments it's it's

because no her core values are not exactly mine and just being aware of

that like look we value different things now it's not like and by the way if if

if listeners think about somebody they may have been divorced from, right? It's

probably because your and her or his core values were completely did not

align. Okay, with my wife and I when we have an argument, we have a very strong marriage and I love that I'm married

with her. Nobody else for me is that though is that we don't share exactly

the same three. Being aware of that helps our relationship, right? that that's also

true for my children. Taking it to your the step that you're talking about with your company, your company has core

values. If they are truly part of your culture, if if those values truly

determine your culture, just like the divorce from the marriage, if your

values are not in alignment with them, you will end up leaving that company and being miserable there. By the same

token, even if an organization has says they have 10, if the truly core ones are

part of their culture and you share them with that organization,

you end up having a great career and spent 25 years there. I love that as a family, we have core

values, adventure, grit, and faith. And those uh impact every aspect of our

family. Yes. It's amazing how with raising, you know, two boys who are now 15 and 13, like we

did a really hard hike this uh this summer. It was like 21 miles of back country in one day

where uh in the enchantments in central Washington. Okay. Um and

anyhow, it it was just one of those situations where we had to go back to core values a couple times. Hey, we're a

family of grit. Like when it gets tough, this is what we do. um we we we are

adventure and so this is living it out and it just reframes that and it it

reinforces that purpose and so anyhow I I just know that from a family perspective that's been a huge part of

who we are and it's it's really helped us as as parents too Kevin everything that we do at the

program and we teach it right and and develop it the the the best feedback I

receive and that we receive as an organization is when linemen, crew leaders,

supervisors, the VPs, CEOs come to us and say, "Hey,

I can't tell you what a better father, dad, mother, wife this has made me be."

And because for me again, my number one team is my family. my number one team is

so and and if these things that we're talking about the same things that make you a great teammate and a great leader

as a mom, a dad, a husband and a wife, it's a different battlefield, but it's the same exact things that are going to

make you a great teammate and great leader at your company. Those these two things should not be mutually exclusive.

Yeah. No, I love that. Can you talk about the difference between um

between standards and goals? Because oftenimes I think what we do is we we

set goals for ourselves but um we don't also think about the standards and then

the standards start to erode and we don't realize that what's

what's chipping away at our culture is a lack of holding up the standards. Yeah. Yeah.

I I think the way I I' I'd uh describe them is is to share with

your audience a a personal story. My wife and I, we have a 14-year-old as

of this past Saturday, 14year-old son and 8 and 1/2 year old daughter.

That age gap was not by design. Our we got married later in life. Our plan was

have a child right away, wait a year, second child, wait a year, third child. Well, life didn't exactly work out that

way. Well, after we got married and had our son very soon, um my wife then went

through 4 and 1/2 years of IVF and multiple miscarriages, multiple

surgeries, really just, you know, really the the definition of toughness there.

Um, and at the end of these four and a half years where we have one viable embryo

left that they want to reinsert inside the woman, my wife, but this is at a

risk where they want to reinsert three viable embryos. We only have one left.

Well, that one ends up becoming our now 8 and 1/2year-old, as I describe her,

terrorist daughter. Um well along the way there we we wanted to have a bigger

family and although we never lost hope we could do some basic statistics. So we looked into adoption and over that

fiveyear kind of journey of getting pregnant losing pregnancies in the

hospital out of the hospital uh get pregnant stay pregnant breastfeeding we're getting taken on and off down and

back off the adoption website. Finally, after 5 years, my wife and I say, "Hey, look.

Let's this adoption thing isn't working out. Let's become foster parents."

A week later, the adoption agency calls us and says, "Hey, you've been selected

to adopt the little baby boy." Okay, so we have another discussion. All right, we're going to adopt this little

baby boy. This is right during CO. So, I drive down to New York City. I I pick

him up and I and I drive him home and our family's complete. Now, this little

boy, he was not white. So, at some point in his life, he was going to figure out that he was not our biological child.

You know, well, in an in an effort to ensure that he would know that that meant nothing to my wife and I, we

decided to name him Eric Lewis Capulich Jr.

were home together. Three weeks later, the birth mother

changed her mind and wanted her son back. So, I had to take her son from my wife,

my daughter, and my son who were balling their eyes out on the kitchen floor,

bring him back in the car, drive back down to New York City, drop him off at the social worker, and come home. Well,

on the way down to New York City, my wife had called me and had said, "Hey, Eric, is it okay if Axel doesn't go to

school tomorrow?" Axel, our son, six years old maybe at the time. Is it okay

if Axel doesn't go to school? I said, "Yeah, Melissa, look, whatever you want." Well, I continue my drive to New

York City. I return him to the social worker and now I'm driving back home and I'm thinking about that conversation I

had with my wife earlier and I call her back and say, "Hey Melissa, if you haven't spoken to Axel yet, don't. I'd

like to speak to him when I get home." Well, I got home later that night and got Axel up and he and I sat down on our

kitchen table and I, you know, had this conversation with him and I just asked him, I said, "Axel,

is winning important?" And he said, "Yeah, Dad." And I said, 'Yes, it is.

If if it weren't, it wouldn't feel so good, and losing wouldn't feel so bad,

Kevin. Those are goals. They're performance-based. Are they important? Yes, they're

important. If they weren't important, they wouldn't feel so good to accomplish, and they wouldn't feel so bad if you don't. It Winning is better

than losing. Okay, as I explained to my son.

But as I then continued to explain to him, Axel, it is important and we have

to be aware of winning and losing. Aware of it. But what I'd like you to do is stay

focused on being selfless, tough, and disciplined

on being the best teammate and best leader you can be. That's what I want to have you stay

focused on, just like you did to Junior the last three weeks. Just stay focused

on this. Yes, be aware that winning and losing goals are important but standards,

those values that we have, selfless, tough, and disciplined and the standards

that reinforce them. Daily standards. Get up early. Ask mom if she needs help

with Junior. Spend extra time with him. those be those daily behaviors that

reinforce what it means to be selfless, tough, and disciplined. If you can stay

focused on those, unfortunately, you're still going to suffer loss in

your life. I want to be transparent. I want to be a man of integrity with you.

And when you do, it's going to hurt when you lose. And sometimes it's going to hurt real bad.

But even knowing that, if you can still stay committed to

selfless, tough, and discipline and the standards that reinforce those core values, if you can still stay committed

to being the best teammate and best leader you can be, and selfless, tough, and discipline is how we define them,

then yep, you're going to suffer some loss in your life. But you will end up in the last full

measure being wildly successful in it.

That's true for my son Kevin. That's true for all of us. Yes, we have to be

aware of winning and losing. It matters. It matters.

But let's stay focused on our values and then the standards that reinforce those

values. Great that you say you're tough. Okay, but how do you prove it every day

to yourself and to everybody else? Well, as the conversation went on, as I told

Axel, hey, let me define tough for you because when

I left here, you were c balling your eyes out. Axel, tough guys have emotion.

Really tough guys can show emotion at a time of their choosing.

And third, really, really tough guys can ask for help with those emotions if they

need them, and your mom and dad will always be here to help you with them.

But then I paused and I said, "But Axel, I want to be clear about being tough.

See, tomorrow morning, your mom is going to wake up and she's going to go to work because she's a tough guy. and you

you're going to get up and you're going to go to school because so are you. We

aren't born that way. We have to develop it.

That's true for us as a family. That's true for whatever the organization is,

whatever the team is of which your listeners are a part.

And Eric, that is such a powerful story. And uh yeah, thank you for sharing that.

I think the the big takeaway too is that goals are

uh performance-based and standards are behavior-based and and it takes a

conscious decision to continue to realign to uh to those core values to to

show up. And I also love what you said. we work closely with um he's a lineman

named Brady Hansen and he talks about how getting tough is getting help and

you know so often we we confuse toughness with not getting help not

saying that we need to you know to seek help and so I I appreciate you sharing

that story about Axel and and what what it looks like to be tough and to yes

maintain those standards so thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah. I know I'm I'm Yeah, thank you for

asking about it. It's it's that is key to our success and and as I said

earlier, let's define our values. Well, doc, let me define tough the way we

define tough as as a family and as a company. What a tough person does. A

tough guy, universal use of the word guy, man, woman. A tough

person has an ability to stay mission focused in the face of

physical, mental, and emotional adversity. That's that's how we define tough. Let me say it again. An ability

to stay mission focused in the face of physical, mental, and emotional adversity.

Now, I'm not saying that's right or wrong for anybody that's out there, but I'm saying that's right for us. Well,

let's use that definition as it pertains to getting help. If you believe that that's truth or some

version of how we define tough is is truth to you, well then whatever I need

to do to help me stay mission focused in the

face of this physical, mental, and emotional adversity that I'm faced with.

By definition, the logical sequencing there means if speaking with a trained

professional it on a consistent basis

helps me and allows me to stay mission focused. That by definition means that is a tough

act that you were doing. I I mean it I if you believe that to be truth well

then that's just logical sense. I mean, I'm I'm not, you know what I mean? It's not like it's this isn't some secret

potion. It's you do those things that you need to do to help ensure that

you're in alignment with your values. And if that's how you define tough, that

may mean and can very often mean seeking professional help.

That's so powerful. And to build off that, you talked about brotherhood or

sisterhood earlier in this conversation. What does accountability play into maintaining standards as well? Because

uh it seems like that's a critical component uh to the standards is is the

accountability aspect. I if I could I I would like to and I'm

going to circle back to accountability and the importance of it.

But along with that, uh, ways to help, and we talked about speaking with a

trained professional. I would be remiss if I didn't challenge every single listener

of yours to commit to physical fitness.

Th this isn't like what Eric Capatulic thinks or what the program believes. Th

this is science, okay? Harvard just released a study.

If you vigorously run, and they consider vigorous to be I can't

talk to the person I'm running with, right? You're breathing so hard.

It lowers your chance of depression by 26%.

If you do it for 15, not 50, 15 minutes a day, vigorous running all

out, can't talk to the person next to you, lowers your chance of depression by 26%.

Now, interestingly, what they also published was if you

walk, just walk leisurely 15 minutes a day. And what is leisure? How do they

define leisure? like, "Hey, on lunch break, we go for a walk and we have a

conversation around the parking lot." It lowers your chance of depression by

26%. The same exact amount. So, I I'm not

going to stand up here and and and beat a drum about the,

you know, get in shape, do what you need to, you know, but I want to remind

everybody that physical, mental, emotional health, those three things are

not separate entities. Those three things go hand in hand. What does

physical fitness mean? It does not mean racing the iron man, climb Mount

Everest. Physical fitness means do something.

Do something. Stretch, walk, but commit to doing something. No, not

for 5 hours a day. I mean, Kevin, great. You and your you and your family want to get after it, right? I mean, I think

it's awesome, by the way. Right. And and okay, so maybe that's what it means to you. But hey, to somebody else, like

look, do your morning stretches in the morning. Go go go for a walk at during lunch. Don't make an excuse not to do

it. It has a direct link to your physical, mental, and emotional

well-being. Okay, now I'll get off the soap box and I'll get back to accountability.

Can I just uh speak up to that as well? Because e even 15 to 30 minutes of low inensity

exercise on most days per week, so like four to five days per week, cuts down

your risk of the five major killers like cardiovascular disease, um cancer, um

you know, uh diabetes by like 50%. It it's like there's so much magic when it

comes to health and movement. So I I just want to add that to it because it's like it's such a powerful antidote and I

think it it goes beyond a lot of people say you know my work is physical so I'm exercising all day but I think there's

something about also like you said just getting away and walking for 15 minutes at the end of the day or just having

that time to clear your head. So I I just want to throw a plug in there too because I'm in total alignment with you.

Yes. Do something. That's it. Yeah. I mean just do something right. Yes. Um

okay now let's let's talk about accountability. Okay. Um first of all when we think about

accountability and the importance of it

as we discuss it good friends are nice to each other. We tell each other what we want to hear.

Doc the truth is we all want to be wellliked. I mean it's a human condition. We we all do.

We all want to be good friends to each other. Good friends are nice. We tell each other what we want to hear. Nice is

a form of laziness. Great teammates are kind to one another.

Great teammates tell each other what we need to hear.

It's not nice or kind. It's not good friends or great teammates. It's be

both. Being good friends to each other is never the problem. Except when being good friends to each other becomes more

important than being great teammates for each other. Be both. Great teammates hold each other

accountable. Why? Because by doing so, even though it's incredibly uncomfortable for me, all of us want to

be well-liked. Even though it's incredibly uncomfortable for me, I'm going to hold you accountable because by doing so, it

makes you a better version of yourself. It keeps you safer. I mean, in in in the

energy industry, look, everybody comes to work in the morning. Our ability to hold each other accountable ensures that

everybody goes home safely at night. So, even so, when somebody's holding me accountable, I get it. My initial

emotional reaction internally is going to be, "Oh, what are you talking about? I've been doing it this way forever. Oh,

you know, what do you know, boot, you know, young guy? What? You know,

look, emotional resiliency means that we don't

get angry and we flail. I mean, a child gets angry and has temper tantrums.

If we're adults, we don't throw temper tantrums. By the same token, complacency kills. We also

don't let happiness just drive everything that we're doing here, right?

The best teammates and best leaders are emotionally resilient. What does that mean? We have an ability to stay mission

focused in the face of emotional resiliency in in the f of emotional adversity. When somebody holds us

accountable, we're going to experience we're going to experience a certain internal emotion. Yeah. But emotionally

resilient people don't just flail. Children do that. We think and that's

what makes it key to being the best teammates and best leaders. We think. How do I respond to this natural human

emotion that I'm feeling that's best going to help my team accomplish its mission? Well, if my teammate is holding

me accountable, what I know is what I know is it's uncomfortable for them to

be doing this. So, I have a teammate that's holding me accountable, it's uncomfortable for them to do so, and

they're doing it with my best interest at heart. I'm going to yell at that person. I'm going to make excuses. I'm

going to make them feel uncomfortable. No, I should respond with one thing. Thank you.

Thank you. That type of culture that everybody is

doing that for each other, it's incredibly difficult to create. It

requires great teammates and great leaders. It requires great leaders to embody that thank you culture or mindset

that they it it requires you know we work with companies and they're saying oh the linemen need to

hold each other accountable more to which we ask the executives do the linemen ever see you holding other

executives accountable like do they see you holding the CEO

accountable I This is a this culture. It is a culture

of accountability that starts with the leaders.

Uh a circle of safety. You know, man, our guys need to do circles of safety. Uh you know, walk

around the truck before you, you know, check your surroundings before you get in the truck. Okay. Well, vice president

at headquarters when you get in your car at the end of the day, do you do a circle of safety? Right? It starts with

personal accountability. Number one. Number two, it requires great leadership

to instill this thank you attitude o over accountability

and just continue to work on it. There's a number of different ways that we suggest it when we work with organizations. We talk about doing

regular debriefs. Hey, before we leave this job site, we're going to have a discussion about what went well and what

we can improve. So now we're just standardizing accountability. And then a

key piece of it is when we think of accountability, most of us think about when somebody's not doing something.

When yes, that is a piece of it. But first and foremost, I want us to think

about accountability. We want organizations to think about accountability and we want leaders and

and teammates to think about accountability of when people are meeting the standards. Walk around

looking for people doing it. And there should be benefits to doing so. Even if

that benefit is, man, I love that I show up here and everybody

has the right PPE equipment on th this is awesome. And you as a leader might think, well, please like, well, listen,

if you're going to show up somewhere and if it's not the PP equipment isn't out, the people aren't in the right gear and

equipment, if you're going to hold people and there's going to be consequences for not doing so, then you

better damn well be sure that there's benefits for when you show up and everybody is in it, that there's

benefits for it, too. There should be both. So, a key piece of accountability

that I would like everybody as like a reminder to take away, yes, it's about when people aren't meeting the standard.

It should also very much be about when people are meeting the standard, too.

Yeah, that's such a good point because I think it's Henry Cloud. He's uh uh

written a couple books. One of them is called Boundaries for Leaders, but he says you get what you create and allow

and uh the culture that you create and allow. And as a leader of a business, you know,

I I didn't like to have tough conversations. And I I always viewed things as tough conversations. But then

he also has a a statement in that book that says it's unkind to be unclear. And

I see myself as a a kind person. And I realized that I was actually being unkind by not having those tough

conversations with other people on my team. And oftenimes it wasn't critical and it wasn't like they were trying to,

you know, do the wrong thing or not hold to the standards. They just needed some coaching. They needed that awareness

that, oh, I didn't even realize that that that this was happening. And so for me, a huge transformation from a

leadership standpoint was just realizing that if I don't say anything and I just kept keep letting that uh happen, I'm

being unkind to that person. I don't I don't know if you have a response to that, but the standard guy that used to work here

used to always say like the standard you walk past is the new standard you set. He came from the drill field, the Marine

Corps drill field, and that was their saying there. The standard you walk past is the new standard you set. That what a

what a easy way to remember exactly what you're talking about and what that and what you know Henry the author Henry

Cloud talks about, right? You what you allow is what your culture is, right? Same thing. the standard you walk past

is the new standard you set 100%. And by the way, I would take it one step further with leaders or or not one step

further, but um I would drill down a little bit here because we tend to think

about big things. What I would highlight is uh you know people submit expense

reports, let's just say, and there's mistakes on the expense report and what does a leader do? Uh, hey, I'll just

correct this for them. And they put, "Oh, okay. But eventually you you're

gonna get an expense report and you're not going to have the time and you're going to get really upset at that person because their expense report is still

wrong." Yeah. But you've never told them what the mistakes are that

you're correct. You're in, you know, consistently correcting. And most people, you say, "Hey, look on the

expense report, do this, do that. This is what you have to do." And they go, "Oh, thanks. I appreciate it. Like I

won't keep doing it wrong, but I didn't know I was making the mistake in the first place. Right. So those little

things and and exactly as you said about being very clear, uh, yeah, is key. And and I've and I've

certainly, by the way, for what it's worth, oh god, have I made the same mistake countless times.

Well, Eric, this has been so great to uh to have this conversation about the core

values uh standards, goals. It it's really helped. I think all of us have benefited from it. Can you tell us a

little bit about the program and how you started it and what you actually do with

teams and corporations? Yeah, thanks. I appreciate the question. it. Well, first let me let me start by

saying that uh I I am the founder and I'm very proud about being the founder,

but uh I founded it, but I would be out of business if not for the Wii. We we have made it what it is. I think one of

the very unique things about the program is there's a lot of oneperson consultancies out there that tell people

what they should do. But I always wonder like what if if I'm a company hiring one

of these one, you know, person by themselves, I I would ask like, okay, but you don't have to eat your own

cooking, right? Like as as a company at the program, we've got to eat our own cooking here, right? because we're a

team and and the things that we teach, god, I experience them every day as the

leader of the program and and the challenges of of teammates and and of

having them and and so the program when I founded it, but I would be out of

business if not for the Wii. But the

quick story um I had gone out of the Marine Corps, out of business school. I had worked in finance for about a year

and a half and it just wasn't for me. I worked at Goldman Sachs, Doc. Goldman Sachs is a great company. I mean, I know

some people are like, oh, you know, Hoy Toy Goldman Sachs and Upper Crust and all this and and maybe that's true on,

you know, for some of the people that are there and and whatever. Look, I worked with great people there. super

smart, talented. I can't say enough good things about it as an organization. It

wasn't for me. It just wasn't. And uh

so I decided, hey, at the time I was an assistant lacrosse coach. I was, you know, kind of moonlighting doing some

work at a local high school uh prep school outside of Boston. And I kind of noticed all these prep schools have

these really, really nice weight rooms.

But at best they would have like a science teacher in there in the afternoon

making sure kids didn't kill themselves. So I decided I wanted to stay in

athletics and I thought the way that I can start this

business is by providing hourly strength and conditioning coaches to these high schools. Unlike colleges where the where

the weight room gets used throughout the entire day, high school it gets used for two hours, three hours every day. That

that that's it. So I was provide the program would provide hourly strength

and conditioning coaches. And in year one, we did have a few contracts. We were making money doing it. But at the

same time, John Tilman, coach John Tilman, who's now the head lacrosse

coach at the University of Maryland, one of the goats in in lacrosse, he had been

an assistant lacrosse coach at the Naval Academy when my last tour of duty in the

Marines was back at the Naval Academy and the head coach, some guys had gotten

in trouble. The head coach called me up, who had been my head coach my senior year. the head coach called me up and

said, "Hey, Cap, can you come down here and just wear these guys out for getting in trouble for a couple days, right?" So, I did.

Fast forward a few years later, I just start the program. The assistant coach, assistant coach, John Tilman, now

becomes the head coach at Harvard. He calls me up. I had just started the program and he said, "Hey, Cap,

can you come down here and do what you did at Navy, but but teach these guys a

little bit about toughness training, right?" Yep. Great. I'll come provide some. So,

I went down there and worked out with the team. That's what I did. And but at the time, I would call out some of the

team captains to come out and lead some of the exercise with me. And these are I mean, look, this is Harvard, right? I

mean, these guys are smart. They're great athletes, division one athletes, great athletes, smart, great shape, good

good human beings, you know, all of that stuff. But they really struggled just

leading some communicating effectively with their teammates.

At the end of that training, what the coaches then provided me with feedback was, "Cap, you know, I highlight I we

hired you to work with our team." And as good as it was for them, it was better for us as coaches hearing you interact

with our players, right? And what was I interacting them with? Was things like what it means to be a

great teammate, what it means to be a great leader, the importance of physical, mental, emotional, adversity,

uh resiliency, the importance of taking responsibility, the importance of being an effective communicator. Okay, that's

what I'm going over with the players. All right. Well, in year one, we ended up working with three other two other

but three in total college men's lacrosse teams. By year two, we worked with n at that

that was me I worked with. By year two, we worked with nine college athletic

teams. By year three, we worked with 30 and we were completely out of the strength and conditioning business. And

we now work with more than 160 collegiate and professional athletic teams and corporations throughout North

America doing exactly the same thing. As far as the curriculum is concerned, we

still are teaching what it means to be a great teammate and great leader. The importance of physical, mental,

emotional resiliency, taking 100% responsibility for everything that happens or fails to happen. The

importance of effective communication. And then we set up our experiential training to help develop those skills

that we teach in a classroom. It's just our belief that everybody's a hero when

it's 70° and sunny out. Everybody gives you the right answer when they're in a climate controlled room. Unfortunately,

we need great teammates and great leaders, not just when it's 70° and sunny out, but when it's hitting the

fan. So, we create our experiential training that puts people under pressure and some stress uh to help develop those

skills that we teach. We do that in one, two, three, 4 day courses. We have an

8-week where we come back on a bi-weekly basis or a monthly basis. Leadership

development academy and then we do our consulting services. I also, and it's

how we first met, I personally am hired to speak about leadership and attacking

adversity to organizations throughout maybe 20

times a year to organizations throughout North America. Yeah. And you do such an excellent job of that. You talked about

the Wii. How many coaches do you have on your team or trainers do you have on your team? Yeah, the program. I appreciate the the

comment because it gets back to some of the things that we talked about today. You know, at the end of last year and

and and setting a standard and holding people to a standard, uh we really had a

major restructuring at the program at the end of last year. An individual got fired. he had been stealing from the

program. But and then other people uh who had been with me for a long time left for

uh if you ask them because of me. If you ask me I'll tell you it's about holding the standards right where the truth lies

it's probably like a divorce the truth is probably somewhere in the middle right but in any event we have gone

through a major restructuring at the program in that as a leader how we were doing

business could not continue. it had gotten us to a certain point

and we were never going to get past that point. And you just have to look at our financials for the last three years to

see. They're staying at this same point. And for me, that's unacceptable because

getting back to earlier, why I went to the N why I got to put the rock in place, why I went to the naval academy, why I went there. Consistent self and

team improvement. Get better. Everybody that works at the program must be committed to consistent

self and team improvement. We ended up losing a lot of people for it and and and I've made a lot of mistakes along

the way too, Doc. So, it's not I'm not I'm 100% responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen here. We went

from a maximum of 14 full-time and part-time people down to six at one

point. And now as we continue to grow, now we're back

up to 12 and we're going to continue to grow as we find more individuals who uh

are going to take us from where we're at to where we're to where we're going. So, we're kind of we went through a very

challenging time here in 2025 and uh like all adversities, as long as you

treat it as such, it's been a wonderful growth opportunity for us. Well, and a

great opportunity for you to put into practice uh some of these things that you talk about every single day. It's like

daily. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we we can't end this interview

without talking about your Iron Man experience in Mount Everest if you don't mind just sharing a little bit more

about that. And I think that I'm going to link to this in the show notes uh the video that you show at the start of your

keynote presentation of that explains a little bit more about um the the

helicopter crash. We talked about the families that were impacted and how you use that to to fuel your performance as

an Iron Man athlete and raise money for the families, but can you share a little bit more about that? Yeah. So, you know, in uh uh in response

to this helicopter crash, we were on deployment and and I decided I'd set up a college scholarship fund for the children of my deceased teammates. So,

should they choose to go to college one day that have the financial resources to do so? if they choose not to go to

college, they would then get a lump sum of money at the age of 25. And and then I had to figure out how I was going to

raise money for this college scholarship fund. Doc, as my joke goes, I always say this in my corporate uh speeches, you

know, let me tell you what I think is the single greatest thing about being a graduate of the Naval Academy, and

again, this is just me personally. When people find that out about you,

never again do you get asked what was your GPA? That's what I think is the single greatest thing about being a

graduate. But if you graduate with a 2.02 GPA out of, you know, ranked 9962nd

out of 992 graduates and you're trying to figure out how you're going to raise money for a college scholarship fund,

you know, participating in calculus is probably not the right idea for you, right? So instead, I I thought that I

would try to get sponsorship and and this thing and and through my participation in Iron Man triathletes,

triathlons, climbing the world's tallest mountains, things that I was already doing, but now I figured instead of, you

know, just doing them just for me that I could, you know, get some sponsorship,

do that stuff and try to raise some money uh from it. So um so I did and

since then till today I've I've competed in completed eight Iron Man triathlons. I've run across Alaska,

summited five of the seven summits, the tallest peaks on the seven continents to include Mount Everest and and that

stuff. So um yes, that's that's um what I you know did in response to the

helicopter crash. I I always highlight to people that I was already doing those things. I I just kind of tweaked it so

that I figured I could do this. And and by the way, it doing so I I I let

everybody know because they go, "Oh my god, how selfless is this of you?" It it really isn't. It it really was very

therapeutic for me probably when I think back on it to to do it. And so

yes, and if and if these young children of my deceased teammates, you know, we

can help on some small level. I mean certainly their moms did you know I I don't even I don't even

want to be I don't even want to speak about this in the same uh you know uh breath as as what their moms have done

for those kids. So uh you know little minuscule bit I had my part in it and uh

but helped me probably even more than it helped them. So that's what I've done and and along the way again doing things

like the Iron Man where it scared me. I wasn't sure if I could do it. Climbing

climbing mountains. I started climbing mountains when I was in the Marines. I got sent to mountain leaders course and

I was pretty good at it. Like I'm not a real technical climber. Um, you know,

I'm not a lead climber. I mean, I'm trained, the Marine Corps trains you to be a lead climber, but that that's not

really me. I'm the pack mule in a in a mountaineering team. I can put on a

really big heavy pack and carry it for long distances and up big mountains and

uh and I just enjoy doing it. Maybe not at the time. I mean, cold, wet,

miserable, tired isn't fun for anybody, but the sense of accomplishment that I

get from doing those things uh really helps uh scratch the itch about

continuing to challenge myself. Well, Eric, man, this was such a

fantastic conversation. and I'm so grateful that you took the time and man just so many practical takeaways and I

think our listeners are going to have so much value. I thank you for teaching us about what it means to set

standards uh set those values and hold each other accountable. So I I hope that a lot of people are are blessed and

encouraged through this conversation. Anything that you want to add uh here at the end?

You know, I was just last week I was climbing Mount Washington in New

Hampshire with a group of uh corporate executives from the UK. I'll give a

shout out to the team realers here. Awesome group of people, men and women.

And on the hike up, I was talking to one of the executives and uh he was asking

me about things from the Marine Corps that really made an impact on me. And I

said, you know, a lot of people, you know, you mentioned the helicopter crash and a lot of people have seen that video because of the Iron Man video that was

made of it and and all that stuff. And it was certainly a huge thing impact for me. And I said, you know, but but one

thing that not a lot of people know that I had the privilege of doing so and has

made a lifelong impact on me was there was one day when I was uh at the Naval

Academy, my commanding officer came to me and he asked me if I'd volunteer for this duty because he he couldn't order

me it to do it. I had to volunteer. And after doing so, I I went home. I put on

my dress blueue uniform. I drove out to the eastern shore of Maryland, out to Centerville, Maryland,

drove up this family's driveway, got out of my car, walked up their steps, and

and rang the doorbell and waited for the mom to answer the phone

so I answer the door so that I could tell her that her son had just been shot

and killed in Iraq. And I shared that story with this

gentleman as we hiked up Mount Washington on a very challenging day on a very

challenging hike. Because as I said to him,

because of that experience, if you ever have to do it, get out of

the car, walk up the drive steps, ring the doorbell, and and wait there

knowing that when the door is answered, you, not some bad guys over in Iraq, you

are about to ruin this mom and dad's life. Ruin it. you are.

If you come and have dinner at my house, and you say, "I had a hard day. I had a

hard practice." My kids at 8 and a half and 14 will tell

you, "Uh, no, sorry. We we don't use that here.

We use challenging." If you have a sick

friend, family member, the death of a loved one,

somebody suffering, you mentioned cancer earlier, and you want to talk about those things as hard, by all means.

You'll get no no argument from us.

But I don't ever want to hear in my house that you had a hard day in school. Just like you're never going to hear me

talk about a hard day at work. The restructuring that we went to, that wasn't hard either. All of the things

that we do on a regular day-to-day basis, your hike 21 miles. That wasn't

hard. It was a challenge. It's challenging. As warriors, we love a

challenge. We attack challenges or we should. But by human nature, we want to get through the things that are hard.

Just get through them. How you think about things on a daily

basis affects how you talk about things which affects how you act and react to

things. Thankfully, the same is true in the opposite direction. If you're in a bad

mood, put a smile on your face. It makes you happier. Talk about good things happening. You

get happier. Hard versus challenging.

I shared it with this corporate executive as we hiked up a very challenging hike on at Mount Washington

and uh it kind of reminded me and as we close today I guess maybe I'd leave that

as a closing thought for everybody. I love it. That's a mic drop moment. Thank you so much for ending there.

Well, we are so grateful that you uh joined the show today. Uh thank you for joining the Work Ready podcast and until

then, let's get to work. Heat.

Heat.

How Leaders Face Fear and Win

WorkReady Podcast Episode 6

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