Winning Frontline Support for Safety Initiatives

Ken Lulow | Line Worker Solutions

Dr. Kevin Rindal | Vimocity

Hello, and welcome to today's live event. We are going to be talking about winning frontline support for safety initiatives. Really excited about the guest that we have today.

Before we jump in, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Dr. Kevin Rindal from Vimocity, CEO and cofounder, and we've been really, enjoying this series of live conversations with, different leaders in the safety world about how they can enhance and, drive their safety initiatives.

Huge pleasure today to introduce, Ken Lulow. Ken is a third generation lineman with over twenty five years of experience, as a frontline worker and has now, moved more into the world of, training, especially with safety related training for the utility industry, OSHA training. And he is also the founder of, Line Worker Solutions. So really excited to, have Ken on the on the live event today. Ken, welcome.

Hey, Kevin. Thank you. Thanks for having me today. I'm really excited.

Yeah. We're we're so excited to hear a little bit more about how you have really found strategies to drive that engagement with frontline workers. I think that the unique, part about yourself is that, you know, you you wore boots on the ground for over twenty five years, and you're the one, doing the work and, learning from, your safety peers as well. But we'd like to hear from you. What are some things that you have found that you took away from that experience and now you bring into your safety training?

So a lot of what I learned, boots on the ground, being out with the in the field, is really how to listen to what everybody's experiencing in the field and being able to relate, you know, like, the experiences that we had, the highs, the lows, the challenges that you had to deal with, the weather conditions. Because a lot of times when you're in an office or sitting behind a desk, you might see the conditions out there. You might hear of obstacles that had to be overcome. But being there and experience it, it's a completely different story.

The emotions that go that those individuals go through and just, camaraderie that you build up when you're in the field, it's it's a it's a bit of a bond and it's, I guess, having that relationship that you can speak the language, you can relate to. So when they do have some concerns, you can really consider those concerns and try and put yourself in their shoes and remember what it was like and even question, maybe is this the best method to approach this at this time?

And the other thing is really we don't know everything. So being in line work for twenty five years, there's a lot of things that I didn't know and not pretending I have the answers to everything. So ask the questions when you're not sure. And somebody's coming to you with a concern, don't pretend that you know if you don't know. Just ask the questions. Try to gain that understanding so that you can really get to the root cause of what the concerns are and and then the ways that you can actually get down and mitigate it. But a lot of that comes with being open and honest with with the frontline workers too because they they know when you're pulling their leg a little bit.

Thanks for that, Ken. And, you know, some of the folks that are, listening to this and participating, you know, may not have twenty five years of boots on the ground experience as a line worker. And sometimes it can be difficult to get that buy in from frontline workers.

What are some things that, you know, people in that situation can do to relate, to the the end workers or the the line workers or gas workers, whoever they're, they're really trying to influence and reach with their safety messages.

What are some, tips that you would recommend?

So, really, for organizational leaders that are trying to connect with the field, it's be visible and be in front of the workers and listen to them, but actually hear them when you're listening. A lot of times, we listen and we acknowledge, but we're not really hearing what's being said. And, I mean, even listen to the meaning in the words because a lot of the times, the frontline workers might have a hard way of articulating what they're experiencing.

So the feeling that's in there. So if they're getting worked up over something, then maybe listen a little harder, try and understand what what it is that's really causing them to get so worked up or so concerned about this change or this new practice or procedure so that you can really get to the bottom of where their concern is to help bring the, product or whatever our program might be up from front there. And then I think the other potential issue that we have is the communication gap. We might have an initiative that we're trying to bring out into the field or or trying to bring out into the organization, And it comes it's it may be a great program. We bring it in, but we don't give the why. Like, why are we doing this? And we don't get the buy in even from middle level management.

So then actions and words are a bit conflicting.

And the frontline workers, they recognize that. And whatever their direct supervisor sounds like is the most important initiative to them at the time. Maybe that's productivity or reduced overtime.

That's what they're gonna focus on and not necessarily the initiative because that, communication levels just didn't get passed through. We didn't get the buy in at all levels before it gets to the frontline workers. So it's really getting that communication throughout all the levels, getting the buy in, giving them the why behind it so they understand, and being patient with change.

Change because there's a there's a misconception that, like, change is difficult, that nobody likes change, and I don't truly agree with that. We're all looking for something different. It's rapid change that really causes concern because then people are scared that maybe they won't be able to learn it. They're scared that maybe they'll they'll be outdated or dependable.

So being patient with the change when you're trying to influence a change and don't just expect it to be instantaneous, but really let those workers, on their own get into that change.

Yeah. That's great. There's so many, key components to their that, that answer. Number one, being present, I think, is so important. I I I'm thinking back to a previous live event that we did with Guga Gilbertson, and she talked about that being present and being visible is so important in building the relationships because that's really when you hear, the feedback from people. You hear those concerns that you're just talking about that sometimes people have.

You can, you know, turn some of those misconceptions into, you know, more clarity when when you're there and present and then seeking to understand first, then just saying this is what we're doing, really, giving it the chance for people to share their opinions is so important.

I wonder, Ken, if because you have experience on both sides, if you can maybe give an example of, where maybe you saw an initiative, when you were a lineman not rolled out very well where it didn't have that frontline support and how you felt being in that position and how that's influenced your approach to be different, in terms of getting that buy, getting the, buying the why, established with the frontline workers.

Can you think of a specific example when you're a frontline worker?

Yeah. There's there's really quite a few examples that would be I could relate to there.

Some of them safety and some of them just, with a change, I guess, the way that the industry is changing or the organization is going, especially currently right now with technology.

And as frontline workers that I mean, historically, the technology was, you know, left at home where they're out working with their hands, thinking on their feet. Right? So there's all these conditions and there's all these, fast paced, kinda high stakes hazardous environment.

And as organizations, technology makes tracking data just the rest of the business, you know, quicker, more efficient.

And we try to sometimes push that on to the frontline workers fast because it's gonna make maybe dispatching them to their jobs easier and quicker and tracking their location easier and quicker. And we might roll out all of these programs and give it to them, tell them how to use it. And again, we haven't really given given them the why, and we don't realize there's a lot of fear that's that's established with that, and and I that's what I've experienced too.

Some of the younger generations that are coming through, they're used to the technology, but some of our older generations, there's a lot of fear. And that fear comes out kind of aggressive because it's frontline workers are are a bit of a, I guess, that a type personality. So that's how they respond in the field, and that's how they'll respond to something they feel threatened by. And, usually, that's the response that you'll get, and that's what I've seen.

We try and roll out this well, to say a new dispatching software so we can give them their jobs and and send them their tasks. And they collect the reports on it. And for timekeeping, the whole works. And it was a big change.

And now they have a computer in front of them, and they're expected to enter all this information. And it feels really overwhelming.

But to somebody from the office, it's normal business. So there's a lot of confusion of why it would be so challenging because everybody uses computers and throwing that out there and expecting those frontline workers to just adopt it quickly and pick it up and be efficient is an oversight that hasn't worked out real well. And that's part where it really takes a little bit of time to to roll it out slowly, introduce them to it, tell them the why behind it, how it's gonna make the office or organization better, how it'll make the field better, how it will improve their lives and the organization as a in general so that we can potentially really focus on something that matters to them, like maybe vegetation management or newer tools.

And so you can correlate that, but a lot of times that gets overlooked, and we just don't realize or recognize why those frontline workers are so resistant to it when it seems so simple. But it's just not not putting yourself in your in their shoes and and really trying to listen to their I guess it always comes back to listening, listening to their concerns as to why it's so challenging to roll out. But that's definitely been one that I've experienced in the last ten years as technology is really starting to take over in the industry.

Yeah. Thanks for that answer, Ken.

You know, thinking about getting that buy in too, we have a lot of operational leaders and safety leaders on this call. And sometimes what we hear from people is that you almost have to have that meeting before the meeting or maybe you get some influencers, within the frontline worker group. And you start to to get a temperature of what they're thinking or what they're hearing from the boots on the ground in terms of, like, this new rollout just so that you have more data points to go off of them. Then you can start to slowly, roll out some of these new ideas. Do you have any tips on in terms of how you can have almost that meeting before the meeting or connect with some other frontline employees just to get a better sense of what things look like, from a temperature perspective in terms of people, being open to adopting a new strategy or a new system.

Yeah. And that's a little more complicated, I would think, to answer because really to get that adoption, it takes a little bit of time to build that culture of trust. But in order to do that, a lot of a lot of organizations kinda go off of the authoritarian style, the command and control.

If you're not following along, there's, you know, punishment, and then it causes resentment and a little bit of resistance.

So that that whole top down approach typically doesn't work. Where these organizations are successful is when they do identify some key frontline workers who might be forward thinking or leaders amongst their groups that has the respect of the group that, they're, you know, that kind of the voice for their groups, their field, and bring them into a room, try and get their, you know, their insight on maybe if we're trying to identify the challenges that they have, And if we have a product that we're interested in, present it to them in how we think it would benefit them, and then try and get their perspective on it and how they find it useful, and where do they see hesitation or resistance to this.

And it's just building up those teams, and then those teams, they'll take it to their peers, then that kinda spreads.

And it spreads pretty quick. So it's getting that initial team together, kinda getting the buy in, and really make sure that you listen to them. Because a lot of times, we'll take a project and we'll bring in those frontline workers. They'll give some perspective.

And, you know, they they know how they do their job, what's needed, what they're really experiencing out there. And sometimes we don't wanna hear that because we think this is a great idea and it's gonna work, and we try to force it and it doesn't work. So just take it into consideration what they're saying. Really listen and see if maybe we can adapt it one way or the other to fit to that group to make sure that it's giving them the needs and the benefit that we truly intended for the product to do.

Yeah. Getting that perspective and then having that guide the implementation plan seems like such a great way to go about it. Can you maybe give us an example of where like, again, I I love that idea of it's not just this top down. This is how we're gonna do it, but we wanna get your feedback on how we implement it so that we can really meet your needs. Can you give an example of maybe where you've seen that frontline worker, feedback has guided an implementation plan and maybe even changed, your strategy just because you realize, okay, this is great feedback from these workers. And so we're gonna put this into, play and just, really demonstrate that you're listening to to them, about how to implement a a strategy.

Absolutely. There's I've been on both sides. So I've been on the sides that don't listen, and it's really challenging when you try to roll a product out or a a new program out.

Sometimes it fails within the first year and it gets scrapped. But then I've also been with an organization that has brought in frontline workers and has really put interest in what they have to say. They've listened. Of course, you can't give them everything that they want, but you can compromise to benefit. And just being heard and having a voice at the table a lot of times is enough buy in to really make that program successful, to get the other workers to buy in as well because they feel that they were represented, especially if it's individuals that are kind of the voice for that group. They feel represented.

They feel like they did the best that we could to adopt this program, so you get you get the support that way.

And we were looking for, like, a specific example, I would say, of the one utility that I'm talking about when they've tried to go to, like, a new training program, and they've really brought in individuals that represent each area, listen to what they have to say, and adapt training to their and they were able to identify big gaps of where there's safety issues and trainings that were present in the field that have been overlooked for years and years and years, and able to bring them in and build a whole training program just on that topic so that we won't have any of those issues, and just make sure that they're prepared for the conditions and the situations that they'll be facing as they go out in the field.

Great. Thank you, Ken. And how should people gauge success when it comes to implementation? Like, what does success look like when you're trying to engage frontline workers and roll out an initiative because, you know, success doesn't always immediately happen. Sometimes it it takes time for something to really, be fully integrated, fully embedded. But love to hear a little bit more about your perspective on how to gauge success, from a leadership standpoint.

Yeah. And this so this one's a kinda little maybe pet peeve of mine, the way that a lot of organizations gauge their success.

And a lot of times, we'll treat a program like it's a product that you're trying to sell to an individual, and success is having that individual buy it. But and then we gauge that off of numbers a lot of the time. Everybody's data and metrics, KPIs, you know, are we hitting these our dart rates or our loss injury prevention times. And that's not really the targets we should be shooting for, but really the target should be the culture that we're building with these frontline workers.

Are we establishing that culture of safety so that that safety is really the DNA of the organization, and it's not just a program that gets implemented. That if it gets accepted, maybe it's successful and reduces numbers. But if we build the safety culture and we give a program or the tools, kinda like what Vimocity has, the tools to the frontline workers that will get utilized, you'll see the numbers reduce on their own. And it's that's focusing on the people and not necessarily on the numbers.

And that's where a lot of organizations go. They base everything off of numbers, and that's to me, that's just backwards.

Ken, when it comes to the the stakeholders, you know, it's it's one thing for maybe safety to, be driving an initiative. But, I know that what we found oftentimes is that there are different levels of leadership that also need to be engaged. So, like, obviously, the executive leadership plays a really big role in terms of, success. But, really, it's it's, you know, those foreman level, the the mid level managers who are interacting with, the frontline workers on a day to day basis. They're some of the most important people to, ensure that there's that buy in. Can you speak a little bit more to the different levels of leadership and and how people should be thinking about that in terms of, the important, people that have buy in, get their perspective as you're putting together a plan.

Yeah. Absolutely. And so to me, no matter what level you're at, you're always looking up to somebody else. And it could be the CEOs looking to their shareholders, and the directors are looking up to the CEO, and then your managers are looking up to directors, and, you know, on and on and all the way down to the foreman looking up to their supervisors, the apprentice looking up to their, journeyman.

And everyone's an example. So the whole safety culture needs to stop start at the very top. So that's from the most visible person, the CEO, directors, managers, supervisors, to the foreman, and and all the way down.

It needs to start be a model for safety culture that's not only do should be that leader say that this is what I want, but they should be acting that way too and acting like safety is their if it's if it's a concern like most organizations say safety is their top priority, but make it more than just words and actually be actionable and demonstrate that. So when you are seen, that's what you're modeling for the leadership right below you. And then they'll take that serious, and they'll model that to the next group and the next group. So you'll get everybody modeling after who do you look up to at the very top.

So it's really it really starts from the top that everybody needs to walk the walk, talk the talk, bring it all the way down because you're a model you're a model. You're a mentor or a guide to somebody at some place, and that's could even be if you're an apprentice. There could be a helper that's there or a intern that's coming in, and you're still a model to that person on how they should behave and what's really important. So when safety is important to that each level of leaders, they demonstrate that, you're gonna wanna just mimic that behavior and adopt that behavior because that's that's the organization.

That's what's important here. That's what you feel connected to and and, I guess, how the whole values of that organization are put together.

Ken, that's so good. One of my, favorite leadership gurus is a guy named John Maxwell. You've probably heard John Maxwell, but he says that leadership is influence. And so no matter what level we are, you know, that influence that we have, can be used for for good, for furthering causes, for furthering initiatives, for encouraging other people.

So we're all leaders in in our own regard. So so many good things there. Love some of the things that you highlighted, in this conversation, especially about being visible, listening to people, getting their feedback before you, push an initiative. So I just feel like there was so much value in this conversation.

Is there anything else, Ken, that you'd like to make sure that, you leave, people with?

I guess, make sure that when you are listening to the people that you're really hearing the those frontline workers too. Because, a lot of times, there's challenges in articulating what they're feeling or what the emotion is, and so we might hear some words that we find aggressive or offensive and and we, you know, take it personally. And that wasn't necessarily intended for you, but that's giving you an insight into what those people are actually feeling or what they're struggling with. And it's getting so it's not just listening to the words, but hearing the meaning and just digging deeper into it and trying to trying to take yourself out of it a little bit and just really try to understand what's going on so that we can establish that culture and that connection and build the trust.

And I think that's I think that's key is just trying to build trust that'll help that culture grow.

And whatever initiative, whatever program we wanna roll out, we'll gain success from there.

That's so good, Ken. And I know that one of the things that I've done over the course of, my career working with, frontline workers is I'll go out and teach them about taking care of their bodies. And, usually, people, you walk in the room, their arms are crossed, people are not excited to be there. But once once you really start to get to know that person and, you make it about them, all of a sudden, the arms uncrossed, people start to become much more open to the conversation.

And so I think you really hit on, something key there that, you know, somebody's reaction of being resistant or maybe a sharp response isn't necessarily how they truly feel, but it might be a little bit of that protection because they're like, I'm not sure what's going on here. So I think it's it's key to just build that relationship, seek to understand, and, that goes a long ways in terms of building that trust, that, you know, really will will push things forward in the right way in in the long run for, you know, a good partnership. So, Ken, thank you so much for taking the time.

For people on this call who are interested to learn more, where can they find a little bit more about you, Ken?

You can find me on LinkedIn, Ken Ludo, or you can find me at lineworker solutions dot com.

Awesome. Thank you so much. And just for, everyone's knowledge, this, is being recorded, and so we will follow-up and, make sure to to send that out to you. You can also go to our events page.

It's just mossy dot com, forward slash events. We have previous, recordings of other live events that are there, so feel free to share this with your coworkers. But, again, our our hope is that this is just an opportunity where we can all, learn, grow, and help continue to help the workforce, be safe, healthy, and and perform at perform at their best. So thank you so much for being here today, Ken.

Everyone benefited from me from your knowledge.

Thanks, Kevin. Thanks for having me.