Trust First, Safety Follows: Leading Crews the Right Way

Dr. Maria Silva-Palacios | H&S Advisor

Dr. Kevin Rindal | Vimocity

In the trades, pain and injuries are often seen as just part of doing the job. What if that mindset is costing us
our health, our careers, and our quality of life at home? Today's guest spent
over 20 years in the utilities helping linemen and crews build strong safety cultures where leadership, not luck,
drives results. Many leaders don't believe they're leaders. It's not about a position or
title. It's about your impact and your influence. This is the work ready podcast.
Dr. Kevin here and I just want to personally thank you for being a part of this community. It means the world to us
and without you we wouldn't exist. The only favor that I will ever ask is that
you like or subscribe to the Work Ready podcast as this ensures that we can continue to grow this community and
Meet Dr. Maria Silva-Palacios — leadership, ergonomics & culture expert
bring these amazing guests and conversations to you each week. Thank you so much. Now, let's get to work.
Hello, I'm Dr. Kevin Renal with the Work Ready Podcast. So happy to have you here today. We have a special guest, Dr.
Maria Silva Palasios. Maria, it's so awesome to have you on the show. You and
I first connected probably like six or seven years ago. You were working for a utility and I was just getting Vimosity
off the ground and we had some interactions and just immediately hit it off because I think we both have such a
passion for viewing the workforce as industrial athletes and then just also realizing how much um soft tissue
injuries and uh strains and sprains can impact people's quality of life long
term. We did a live event series through Vimosity about a month ago and we'll make sure to link to that in the show
notes. But Dr. Maria, welcome to the show. It's been so great to reconnect with you. Thank you so much, Dr. Kevin. I love how
our we've literally gone full circle, you know, and I am so grateful that our
paths did cross after so many years. And who would have thought, right, that it would have been at a union conference.
So, um, you know, I'm just going to give you a little bit more history about my, uh, work career in the utility industry.
And I did spend a little over 20 years, probably one month shy of my 21st year,
um, career in the utility industry. and where I served primarily as a safety professional. And my job as a safety
From Ecuador to the utility field: 20 years in safety leadership
professional for the utility was to support some of the field work crews and
then some of the office uh work crews. And then I would say 2020 somewhere
around where COVID hit. I was about 2 years into my doctoral program and I
realized that the last year was just going to be a nightmare and it was really gruesome. And so I decided to take an early retirement just to focus
on graduating. And then once I graduated, felt like I was going to go back into the utility industry. And what
I did was focus all my attention into uh writing this book, you know, authoring
it, publishing it, the safe zone, cultivating engagement one leader at a time. And that took up all my time and
it's been wonderful. And then um the last year and a half or so I've been
focusing on my urggon culture solutions where I serve as an ergonomics specialist as well as a c safety culture
change consultant. Congratulations. I mean to go back and get your PhD there's so much uh hard
work and I love your your book too just because it Thank you. Yeah, you didn't just do a research project.
You actually rolled up your sleeves and got out there with the frontline workers and you're able to connect with them.
And I just feel like there are so many great conversations and uh learnings that you gleaned from that. Um well,
before we jump in, I would like to go a little bit into your backstory and also
talk through uh some of your experience um just life experience that has shaped
who you are and the work that you do today. Uh I'm going to open up with uh it's actually on page one. Uh it's the
Defining the “crucible” that shapes who we become
introduction to your Burke book and it says uh one of the central tenants of Bill George's true north is to know
thyself. Mr. George asserts that as leaders we must know, understand and embrace who we are, including our assets
and flaws equally and then deal with them directly. Another tenant is that the journey to knowing ourselves must
include our life stories including our crucibles. Crucibles are life experiences that are often traumatic and
serve as catalyst for self-actualization. And you know, you're very very vulnerable in this book and
we're just jumping straight into the deep end here, but talk us a little bit about why you chose the concept of a
crucible and maybe some crucibles in your life that shaped who you are today. So, as Bill George stated in his book is
that a crucible is a catalyst uh to self-actualization. And I have another
uh definition, sort of my layman's term definition, which is a crucible is a
traumatic experience. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not, but usually a traumatic experience that has the
potential of becoming something beautiful, something transformative. Uh the it's contingent upon though when
I said the operative word potential is that it's all about choice. It's whether we allow our traumatic experiences to
define us, shape us, mold us and define us or are and we're going to be held captive by them or are we going to use
those crucible or crucibles to be our power source? And so I chose the latter.
And um the crucible that resonates with me the most that I know had the most impact in my life was in such a profound
manner um is centered around my paralyzing fear. The paralyzing fear
that I had um a fear of water that I had and especially being around bodies of
water. And sometimes it wasn't just bodies of water. It was literally my
shower. And it began um it began early in my childhood when I was still living
in Ecuador. And the probably somewhere between the ages of two to 5 years of
age. And the reason that that was so traumatic is that water was used as
punishment. And um all probably the two to 2 to 5
year age frame around you know my formative years up until the time that I immigrated to the United States which
was around 6 years of age and my brother my older brother Victor he is the one
who recounted all of that experience for me because I didn't have and still don't
have recollection of the actual trauma what I do and have experienced um and
probably shortly after arriving in the United States and it started manifesting in forms uh in form of uh nightmares was
that um I just had this visceral reaction to bodies of water as I said
and even in the shower. So there were times where even up until about 25 years ago that I would shower and I could not
allow the shower to run my face. It had to be the shower had to run to the back of my head. So I knew, okay, something's
happened. And as an adult, what I started to notice is that the this this
fear, a paralyzing fear of water not only stayed with water, it began to
transcend in other areas of my life. And that's when I realized that this paralyzing fear um did shape me. It did
mold me. But one step further, it began to define me because I allowed it to
uh penetrate into my life and make and it impacted the decisions that I made.
And I know that in retrospect um I passed up so many wonderful
opportunities based on the fear. And um I so around 2012
Facing a lifelong fear of water — and learning to swim
um my older brother he was an avid uh triathlete and he had asked me many many
years over and over and over again if uh I would please participate in a triathlon with him and that was on his
bucket list and I said as usual absolutely not resounding no you're
crazy you know that I can't and you know why I can't I can't swim and he said
well I think it's time. And the way that he said that was so impactful to me because
he knew my story. Obviously, he witnessed it and he knew how that fear
was wreaking havoc in my life, you know, and he said to me, "It's time." And it
was the, you know, he's a psychotherapist, so he knew exactly what I was doing. And then he said to me, I have gifted you, cuz my birthday was
coming up. I have gifted you five swimming lessons with a personal coach
and I want you to take it cuz the the triathlon by the way is in 3 months and
I No pressure no pressure right it's only three months and then he said I said well I'll do it
I took the challenge but I said she better be this this swim coach better be a therapist because that's the only way
I'm going to get through it. Well, the time came. I took the five lessons. It was horrific. That's a whole another
book, I think. Um, but I got through it. And then I focused on those three
months. I signed up at the local YMCA. And all I needed to do was swim like 16
or 18 laps and I focused on that. So, the first triathon was in a pool. So,
uh, I just, you know, joined the gym, joined the Y, why I'm on my own, free swimming, and I, all I wanted to do was
do 18, 16 to 18. And I did. After at the end of the 3 months, we completed the
triathlon together. And my only other um caveat for doing this, I said, "You have
to stay with me." Cuz he was a fish. He ran. He was an avid triathlete. And I said, "You have to finish with me." And
he promised that he would, and he did. And there was nothing more joyful than
crossing that finish line with my brother and knowing everything that you
know I had been through. And then you know flash forward I've participated in seven triathlons and the ocean ones are
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That is such a wonderful story. And I'm going to hold up the the book here, Safe
Zone. And you can see your picture on the front cover. Uh you're standing in open water. You're putting your your
goggles on. And I mean, even for people without that backstory, open water
swimming can can definitely be something that is challenging. and and uh
terrifying for some, but just incredible job um facing your uh your fears, facing
your past and working through that. I love one of the concepts that you talk about about one buoy at a time. And for
those uh who have never done a triathlon before, I've done a lot of triathlons over the last 20 years. Swimming for me
is is one of the the harder parts just because there's it's a chaotic environment. I mean, you've got people
kicking and splashing and and you're just trying to again get one buoy at a time, but can you explain that concept
of what it's like to be in an open water swim and the idea of one buoy at a time,
but then also how you took that metaphor and brought it into other areas of your life. So, you're right. The the cover of my
book is a watermark picture of one ocean triathon that I participated on. It I
was just putting my my goggles on. I was about to swim to the start. And so that
one boole at a time concept which eventually really became my mantra for every challenge that I was faced with
and and decided to overcome uh that one buoy at a time started because um my
husband would attend and actually participate in some of the triathlons with me. Um and one triathlon
specifically is that is that one that's in the picture. We got we we arrived at the triathlon and I immediately looked
at the ocean buoys and I became overwhelmed and I was already getting in
my head and I was beginning to feel that visceral reaction and just everything
every physiological and emotional response was there. And so my husband of
course knew my story and what he did is he took me to the shore and he said, "I
know that you're only focusing on how much and how many the distance that you have to swim, but he made a point of
pointing to the first buoy." And he said, "All you have to do is swim to that first buoy and then at that buoy,
if you decide you have to have a mental breakdown and cry, do whatever you need to do, do it and regroup, regain your
composure and keep going and then just go one buoy at a time." You know, that
was so profound that it was his usual pep talks. You know, he would just kick it off with your dynamic. you're going
to do this, you're you're a force, you know, force to be reckoned with, blah blah blah. But when he said that one
buoy at a time, I said, I can do this. And sure enough, I did swim to the first
buoy. I had a mental breakdown, you know, cried, held on, and much like what you had shared with me is I started
hearing the swimmers, the roaring of the ocean of the swimmers that were coming up behind me. And so I had to really
block that out. So I did exactly that, Dr. Kevin was I swam to the first then
at the second and I'll tell you I think maybe halfway of the swim leg I got into
my zone. I just got into my zone. I felt glide myself gliding through the ocean
and I was breathing and I was everything was great and then I finished the
swimming portion and went to my strengths which are the cycling and the
running. though and how I've utilized that concept or my mantra of buoy to buy
is any challenges that I face in my life and even you know working through my
doctoral program writing the book it's presents challenges and I just remember
one buoy at a time so in school in the doctoral program at USC I would get the
How fear, grace, and empathy transform leadership
um the syllabi the syllabus right and I would look at it and I would become overwhelmed and I immediately remembered
the swimming portion and so I took that buoy to buoy mantra and applied it in everything and so far it's worked. I
absolutely love that because when you look at the stats that are related to
people finishing a triathlon, the people who uh tend to drop out, it's usually in
the first 200 m of of a swim. And it's getting past that initial fear and it's
like, okay, I I can do this. And that's when people are able to do it. And I would say that that probably happens in
a lot of areas in life when we try something new. if we try to start a business or we you know start a new job
it's like there's so many things that feel overwhelming in in that initial stage and if if you can keep that one
buoy at a time mantra it it's it's remarkable so I I absolutely love that
um can you talk about how some of these life experiences triathlon uh your life
growing up in Ecuador has shaped you as a leader absolutely I think this is a beautiful
nature of number one confronting, embracing,
acknowledging our crucibles and and how they have impacted our life for the good
and the bad. Right? In general though I am speaking about how it negatively impacted me and I
believe that um it has helped me meet people where they
are in my leadership journey because I had to meet myself where I was. I had to extend grace. I had to un extend empathy
to myself. uh which was really difficult because I grew up with um uh uh
especially my mother who was extremely like hardcore. It was, you know, you got
to get up early and it was the early bird catches a worm and you have to be structured and, you know, the first thing she made us do was make our bed,
make our bed and it was just very structured. Um, very harsh, you know,
not very nurturing. And so I
learning to swim, confronting my crucible, I had to realize that I had to
take care of me first in terms of you know as I mentioned uh being gracious to
myself and extending that grace because what happens Dr. Kevin is that if people who have not worked through their
traumatic experiences, usually that lack of self-awareness, the
lack of the emotional intelligence component is that
we tend to project that onto others. And so just as I was treated so harshly, I
had very little empathy and grace for people because I didn't have it for myself. And so I don't say that I
overcame my fear of swimming. I believe I learned to navigate it. Pardon the pun. I learned to navigate and as what
I've learned from it is extend grace to myself which now helps me extend grace to others, have empathy toward myself
which now I have empathy to others. And in the leadership position when we're
working with different personalities, you know, the dynamics of a group is
that we have so many unique personalities and not everyone
was brought up the way that we're brought up and not everyone has the same priorities that we have. And so it
taught me to meet people where they are and be very gracious and also understand
that everybody has a principle. Yeah. And along those same lines, like some people may not realize that they
have a crucible. Like it's it's present, but they just haven't identified that that was part of their
life experience. And so they're they're living not realizing that that's something that
maybe they need to address or deal with or confront that crucible. What would you say to people who maybe are in that
type of a situation where there is a crucible that they just haven't identified yet? I think my number one
suggestion would be just um take an inventory of your life. Uh see
Identifying your own crucible and blind spots
how people respond to you. Um I think that was also a huge learning lesson for
me was um our impact. You know what our
behavior not only impacts ourselves our our behavior impacts all of those around
us family and work. So my suggestion is first really take an inventory of your
life and be honest like literally be brutally honest with yourself in the mirror. The
other thing that I think is really helpful is I think that we all need truth tellers in our life. Um, we need
people who we trust and who have our best interest in their heart and that
are willing to also be courageous and tell us with a gentle tap. Um, and all
with um, in the spirit of contribution and growth and grace and love and
empathy and even forgiveness is just to tell us a little bit about ourselves, something that we don't know about
ourselves, right? to be bring those blind spots to our awaren awareness and so we can be aware of it. So then we can
make that decision decision uh if we're going to challenge them or not. You know my husband and I have a joke we go back
and forth where he says are you going to tell me a little bit about myself that I don't know about myself and I said yep
absolutely and he'll do the same. And so I think it's important that we are
calling each other out in a very loving manner, especially when we see and we witness that our behavior is impacting
people negatively. So he'll always say, "Oh yeah, my wife says that, "Oh, I've
been," because he'll say, "Oh, I've been doing this all my life." And then my response is, "Oh, and is that working for you?"
And he's like, "No." So I, you know, that he's done that to me as well. So, I think that's important to have that
group of people, the group of people who are willing to be uh courageous and let you know. Yeah, that's I love that. And until
we're ready to embrace the truth, we can't change and it's one of the hardest
things to to do in life. So, I really appreciate that you had started to talk about um leadership. What is your
definition of the leader? one. Um, well, for me, excuse me, is
a leader sets the tone for everything, right? The leader must lead with
empathy. Uh, a leader must um know each
of their employees, knows what makes them tick, knows what motivates them. I
What authentic leadership really looks like
believe that a leader needs to have the ability to be vulnerable with their
employees. Um, the more a leader is aware of who they are and is willing to
work like live and and uh what's that saying? Wear your heart on your sleeve,
right? And be just a real person. Uh, I think it gives that the employees, the
workforce a space to feel real. And I often tell executive leaders who may or
may not have a lot of emotional intelligence and I'll say you I I'll
bring to their uh I guess forefront of their brain that there is something called positionality
and a leader already steps into a place with power and um employees
automatically feel a little bit of intimidation around their leaders. So when leaders are aware of this and they
can tone it down a little bit and just be real, it it it provides that space of
psychological safety where an employee feels like they can speak up. Uh that
that person humanizes the leader. So um I think that's important for a leader to
be to to have that self-awareness and to lead in that way. Vulnerability. And
then I can't say enough about empathy. You know, in just meeting your workforce where they are, everybody has a
different emotional threshold. And I think a great leader, transformational,
authentic leader knows how to motivate each of their employees and bring the best out of them. So, we can go on and
on on about this one and we are like that's the thing that I loved about
your book is I mean the whole second half of the book is about authentic leadership. Um
I would let's even and we're going to spend a lot of time talking about this topic but let's even talk about like
just the frontline workers. I mean we're all leaders to an extent. I've heard the
um the definition from like John Maxwell. He says that leadership is influence and we all have influence on
each other and so we all have the ability to influence others and um how
what would you say to those people who maybe don't see themselves as leaders but they have a tremendous uh influence
just on the people around them on the crews that they're working with day in and day out. I often come across this um
in conversations with leaders regardless of the level, you know, the direct
leader, middle management, and all the way up to executive leadership. And it really boggles my mind that a many
leaders don't believe they're leaders even though they have the title and the
position. So what I encourage them to um think about is that leadership isn't
about a position or a title. It's about your
impact and your influence influence. And I encourage the leaders to think about
Everyone’s a leader: influence without the title
that if they're even just overseeing one person, but they have influence over
that person. they care and and within the safety space if they care about that person's safety then they're already
leaders you're already leading so the focus is so in our culture I think it is
so much on a leader is someone that has a title and a position
and I completely disagree with that mindset and just focus on on how much
impact do we have do we have impact and influence on people and if we do then we're leading Yeah. Earlier in this
conversation, you used the term psychological safety. Can you go into that? Yes. And I'm going to reference the
space of tailboard forms, for example, which is a
critical foundational safety protocol for frontline workers is
having their tailboard, whether it's right at their truck or right before they leave the work site. And
psychological safety is, you know, as you know, is is uh employees who feel
that they are not only being heard, but they're valued. And they that causes an
employee to feel safe enough to speak up regardless of the issue, whether it's an
Psychological safety explained through tailboard talks
incident that a near miss or an actual incident, a mistake. And so it just
levels the playing field for everyone to be themselves, to be real, and to speak
up without any fear of retribution. So when that happens, especially within
the process of a tailboard form, think about a person, especially an
apprentice, right? The the the lowest guy on the pod on the totem pole, right, in the hierarchy.
if that apprentice feels safe to bring up a topic or perhaps a potential hazard
that wasn't captured on that tailboard form. If that person can bring that up and feel safe to do so, imagine the
quality of dialogue, safety dialogue that that can happen and can happen well and does happen when there is that
psychological safety. And then also it empowers people and empowers teams to
have better dialogue and also um
just make better safety decisions. You know there's so many I have been in so many incident investigations Dr. Kevin
that uh when I was I would ask questions to the person who was technically at
fault and if I framed the question, you know, if did you know that what you were
about to do was not safe? And the resounding answer was always I did. And
so my next question was what what kept you from speaking up? And I would say
90% of the time was I I just felt that I couldn't
I didn't want to go against my foreman. I didn't want to speak out of authority.
So I it took me back to wow it's the power of psychological safety is so
underrated. And so um it it can prevent it can prevent safety incidents and even
fatalities for sure. And I think you hit on that's probably one of the the driving factors
of why serious injuries and fatalities continue to happen. I mean, if if we're going to get to zero um cifs, uh it's
going to take that psychological safety and it's going to take people speaking up and um sometimes it's it's a fresh
set of eyes that tends to really expose, you know, some of the the opportunities
that exist in the way we've always done it, quote unquote, you know, because
um that fresh approach is so helpful for people that to just say, "Hey, why are why are we doing it this way? there
there's got to be a better way or we've got to maybe rethink that. So would you mind uh and actually this is a great
pivot point to to now going into the research. uh can you expand on maybe give us some context of your research
that um went into the book that you wrote in your PhD and just give us some
context of who you uh spoke with to to conduct the research and how things like
psychological safety some of these these themes emerged from those conversations. So my book is the narrative version of
my doctoral dissertation and my doctoral dissertation title was
engaging employees in injury prevention programs. And where that title came from
was from my experience in the utility industry over the course of over the 20 years. And because of my undergrad
degree in kinesiology, I was always put in committees that were designed and
aimed at reducing the soft tissue injuries in a company. And um
so I over 20 years saw many wonderful programs come through, many not so
wonderful programs come through. But the bottom line was the common theme
Inside her PhD research on injury-prevention engagement
throughout the 20 years was lack of engagement, lack of participation.
And because I was always involved either in creating programs, you know,
facilitating programs, uh, bringing in a vendor to to facilitate these programs
and implement them and execute them, it was always the same. It was always we
were back at square one. There was this awesome uh, momentum in the beginning and then
like clockwork, it would just plummet. And I I always attribute it to, you know, people who uh go to the gym in
January, the New Year's resolution, right? That, you know, everybody's on top and everybody wants to have these
goals resolutions and then 2 months in they drop. And so that's what I was equating that with. And so I became very
frustrated, very very frustrated with why why was this occurring? And so when
it came time to to to choose my doctoral dissertation topic, one of my mentors
said, "You need to really make sure that the topic that you choose is going to be something that you are so passionate
about because you're going to do a lot of research, a lot of reading, a lot of writing." So by then um I had a master's
degree in leadership and management and I had just got I got bit by the leadership bug and I wanted to know more
and I had this background and history in health and fitness and safety. So I wanted to merge the two. And so what I
did is um I sought out to interview the
workforce, the linemen who had 80% of those soft tissue injuries and also
the linemen in the different areas who had the least participation. So I went
about having my qualitative study. I interviewed them and I'll tell you the
findings were I already knew. I knew going in, but it was that gut feeling
that I knew plus my experience. And it was it was amazing to have now the research, the interview, the studies um
confirm that all arrows pointed to leadership. And um so yeah, that's
that's how this came about. And just to ground us against your thesis was
companies implement soft tissue injury prevention programs or some type of safety initiative and what causes them
to either succeed or fail and you know I often times hear like the flavor of the
month uh program and you know like you said that people become disengaged
quickly and what you're saying is that the common theme goes back to the leadership support of these but just for
our audience can you ground us on why soft tissue injury prevention is such a
critical piece. I mean, maybe give us some stats in terms of like what percentage of injuries in the workforce
involve uh soft tissue injuries because it's a huge huge problem. In my career, my 20-y year career,
it would fluctuate. The soft tissue injuries at one point in time dropped to 40%. But it would escalate to 80%. So
somewhere in that range of 40 to 80% of the company's injuries were all soft
tissue related. As I got dove deeper delve deeper into my doctoral research
and study, I realized and and discovered that research indicated
that approximately 70% of companies have some form of health wellness injury
prevention programs in place. But the other startling stats were that less than 50%
of employees engage. And I go back to
where does it start? It it really begins with leadership and uh leadership sets
the tone. So those that's what I I've uh it's just been ongoing. I mean there
were times as I mentioned there were times where it would drop and then there were times that it peaked. So there was
a fluctuation but there were so many it was a constant in the 20 years a constant of uh the soft tissue injuries
leading uh in that particular company and most of our listeners know I mean I
spend all day every day working on soft tissue injury prevention with uh with primarily utility companies and it's
pretty staggering the statistics because when we even look at like the percentage of the workforce that's in pain um like
over 80% of them report that they're experiencing pain multiple days per week at a rate of
4 to 6 out of 10 on that scale. When you're at 4 to 6 out of 10, that means like your quality of life is being
impacted. You're it's in the back of your mind, you're thinking about every time you bend down, when you reach up,
it's starting to impact your ability to do things outside of work. I often times hear people say, you know, hey Kevin,
have you ever heard of the the Snickers commercial, you're not yourself when you're hangry? Well, that's the way that I am when my back hurts. like I'm just
Why soft-tissue injuries keep happening—and how to change it
not the same person. It impacts, you know, my relationship with my kids, the way I I'm at home. I get short with my
co-workers. So pain and these soft tissue injuries, it it's just such an overwhelming problem. And what I've just
always been baffled by is why people are resistant to doing things
that are going to help offset that, protect them, help them feel better. cuz I mean just for instance um we did a a
survey last year with 3,400 people who participate in the program that we initiate 90% of them just by doing 3 to
5 minutes a day say that they reduce the amount of pain stiffness and soreness
and experience increased quality of life um just by doing simple mobility
activities rolling breathing moving it's not a crazy amount of stuff. Why are frontline workers um often times so
resistant to doing something like that especially even when the time is um is given to them?
I I attribute it to multiple cultural factors. So
I in my experience right especially in this uh utility industry is over the
course of 20 years seeing programs come and go and nothing
really stuck, right? Nothing really stuck. nothing was really sustainable and employees see that and so it becomes
a trust issue because employees now don't trust that the leaders really
care about them. It's more about check off the list. You know, we have a
an initiative that we have to uh address. there's been x amount of
injuries and so it's very reactionary and they just check off the list and they roll out a program without really
being strategic about it. And so when when employees when the workforce sees this over and over and over again, it
disrupts the trust that they have. And then coupled with already other cultural
issues perhaps there's a focus on uh an
a leader could say proclaim safety first, safety first and then their behavior is completely contradictory to
that that erodess trust. And when employees just do not feel value, heard,
seen, really truly cared about, it just it lowers the engagement. And unfortunately, these are the cultural
factors that dictate behavior. So that in my experience and in my research is
that that was the number one reason is just um unfortunate, you know, it's
unfortunate, but it can change. I just think that it really requires the type of leadership that is willing to roll
their sleeves up and say, "Okay, I'm in this. I'm in it with you. Uh we care about you. It's not just about the
money. It's not about cost. It's not about production. It's not about eent work. safety is truly first and the safety of
our employees comes first over productivity, cost, ROI, etc.
So, what I'm hearing you say that there's almost like people are a little bit callous to the idea because they're
like, "Oh, we've seen 10 of these initiatives come and go." It always goes back to the same thing. We have an
increase in injuries and now the company's just trying to save money. They're implementing this program or
they just want to check the box. Is that kind of the attitude that you hear? Yeah. I mean, when I was interviewing
the linemen, the workforce, that's exactly what they said. They said, you know, we've been through so many
programs. You know, what's next? Why didn't the last one stick?
And it it it erodess that trust. It erodess that trust. And and think about
it. I mean, if we think of uh our own experience, right? If we've experienced
uh the all talk no action then um there's no alignment between the words
and actions. People just have a tendency not to trust and there's no difference in the workforce.
What role does education and giving people the bigger picture? Why um play a
part in the success of any initiative? like when you really take the time to to
educate employees that this is for them for their benefit and then it's backed up by the actions from the leadership
that this truly is for you. It's it's not a check the box like can you expand on that?
Trust issues: why crews stop believing in new programs
It is critical to explain the why. I I think over the course of my time as a
safety professional, there was so much focus on the what and the how which is very transactional and it is compliance
based and that is necessary especially in the utility industry. Sometimes it is
necessary to focus only on compliance because people could suffer a serious
injury or fatality. However, I think for initiatives such like a soft tissue injury reduction
initiative is that there must be a marriage of compliance with cooperation
because with that then there's higher engagement, there's higher shared accountability. Um there's also it
connects the task with the purpose. So it connects the program the the task of
their job with the purpose of the company the mission of reducing you know
soft tissue injuries for example or just keeping our employees safe. So it is
important and critical to focus on the why and not just the what and the how
because the why is the transformative element and that when it is done correctly and
focused on the why programs any program any initiative has I think a higher
success rate and it'll it'll sustain it'll be more sustainable. Yeah, thank you for that response. And in your
research, did you find among the the linemen that you interviewed a perspective of, well,
being broken down is just part of the job. This is, you know, you get to the end of your career and you're broken
down. That's what we've seen, you know, generation after generation. And there's just kind of that that mindset of
that is what you should expect if you're in the trades all the time. I mean I could say that uh
from the very very beginning I I don't even know if you know this
about me. I started in this utility industry. I was hired by one of the safety
representatives in transmission distribution to go to the locations the
different locations in the different districts and I was the flex coach stretch and flex coach. And so I started
Explaining the “why” behind safety initiatives
with one district, five locations, and I would go every day to lead them in a
15-minute real quick movement to address the concerns of strains and sprains. And
so I immediately saw and you I witnessed that these guys who were climbing poles,
climbing towers, getting into these awkward positions for an extended period
of time, repetitive motions, all of these all of these factors, they were in
pain. And I quickly realized that
they had normalized that culture of pain. They had normalized the culture that being broken down is a occupational
hazard. It just comes with the job. And so funny story is that I was quickly
called Polyiana because here I was, no, you don't have to be in pain. I can I
can really help you. And I had this vision of them living a pain-free life.
And they they were just like, "Oh, you don't know what you're talking about. I've done this all my life." And I and
my question to them was, "How in the heck do you climb a pole and climb towers, etc., etc., do this
this difficult work, and you can't even do this." And they said, "We just get
through it." And it's true. Our bodies will do whatever it takes to get through it. Now, is that the healthiest option?
No, definitely not. Uh but yeah, it was just a normalization of the pain culture
and that we're broken down and it comes with the job. And I also started looking into the research of linemen the life
expectancy and on the average linemen didn't live more than like 5 years after
after they retired. So I thought you work for 30 40 years as a lineman
destroying your body only to enjoy four or five years that doesn't make sense. So I think once I started to frame
things that way then they it it clicked but not all of them but it did click to on to many.
I've seen a shift in that mindset especially in some of the younger members of the workforce. I connected
with a guy over the weekend and he's a lineman and he does CrossFit like 5 days
a week on top of uh his work. He competes in line rodeos and he has the
mindset of like, hey, I'm I'm an industrial athlete. I'm a, you know, workforce athlete. And so I need to
train my body specifically to continue to be able to perform at a high level.
And I often times hear, you know, industrial workers say, "Hey, I move all day every day. My job is physical. Um,
and so I get enough exercise." But can you because you have such a a fitness background, what are your thoughts
around you know our body probably still needs some specific inputs to strengthen
different areas of our body so that we can maintain mobility so that we can you know maintain balance strength
throughout our body to you know increase our longevity. Can you maybe go into that? Yes. and and I came across that
um the entire 20 times 20 years I was there is uh I would hear I don't need to
do this because I go to the gym before working before coming to work and I
would my answer was always the same which was yes you you do this line of
work you do this type of job however are you truly focusing on all of the
elements of moving correctly, the flexibility, the mobility, the strength,
all of the all of the components. And honestly, Kevin, there was there were
guys who yes, worked out prior and maintained their bodies and and and what
have you, but there were the majority didn't because the work was so brutal on their bodies that they didn't want to go
to the gym, especially as you know, the aging works as the guys
became more seasoned and there was a mindset of I'm just going to go in. I'm
Breaking the “pain is normal” mindset in the trades
going to go get it done and then I'll, you know, focus on popping a few ibuprofens and I'll be good for the next
day. But I do also want to add that I agree with you. I think there is a mindset shift that's occurring um and
probably in the last more so probably the last five six seven years where
I think be the line guys are becoming more aware that it is important to take
your care of your body because you know someone's work can make them stronger. I
agree. However, only if there is a proper program that focuses on moving
correctly while they are performing their tasks. So, they can continue the
what they're doing because otherwise it's the other way around. their bodies will break them. That work will break
their bodies down. And then it gets to the point where they're in so much pain that even the strongest willed person
cannot get through an a particular task without feeling that much pain. And and
as you mentioned earlier, the pain is a precursor to an injury. No doubt. And I
recall we interviewed I think we surveyed the workforce and their pain
kind of a a figure like to determine their their pain level and we conducted
an anonymous survey and 50% actually more more than 50% of our workforce was
in pain and we thought okay so 50% of your workforce is now vulnerable to
suffering a soft tissue injury. Yeah. And again, vulnerable to
experiencing a soft tissue injury because pain is the body's alarm system going off saying, "Hey, there's a
problem and if if we don't fix this soon and get that inflammation dialed down, if we don't work on restoration, an
injury is going to happen." And I think that that's that's one of the the big things is pain is that that check engine
light going off that often times gets ignored. And it's like you can put tape over the check engine light, but if if
you just ignore it, um something's going to, you know, go wrong. And I I love your point, too, about your work can
either build you up or break you down. And it all goes back to your mobility and can you get your body in the right
position to perform those job tasks cuz it's just like in the gym, if you're properly positioning your body when you
perform, let's say, a deadlift, you're going to become stronger. but you round that back, you don't hinge at the hips.
Training the industrial athlete: movement vs. mobility
Um, all that strain is going in the wrong spot and it's it's going to break you down. So, it again, it goes back to
mechanics when you're performing those job tasks. I love uh as part of your research, you were able to see some
patterns that were really strong for like high performing groups who really did take advantage of the opportunity to
invest in their bodies and they're very consistent. They saw tremendous results. Can you maybe explain some of the best
practices that you saw both in practice but then also from a leadership perspective? So one of the leading or
some of the leading patterns that contributed to engagement uh in these
injury prevention programs uh during my my tenure there was
f I I found that the participation level
was due to their perception
about value about the value of the program whatever program that was. And
so I found that that became an intrinsic motivation for
many of the guys. So that was a number one pattern was if they found value in
it then it became their intrinsic motivation which kept them going and participating regardless if their
leadership wasn't participating. Regardless if uh the program was
the mindset was that this was a flavor of the month, the guys who really
just took it to heart and participated that intrinsic motivation value was what
carried them. And I was and during my research and when I was interviewing these guys, I was really surprised. I
went in thinking these guys aren't motivated. I kind of have my bias, right? My researcher bias. And that
humbled me because I realized after in interviewing the workforce that these
guys were really motivated be just solely from the value perspective because they valued the program because
they um weren't experiencing pain. Either it had subsided or completely
gone away. They valued the program because they were moving better. They
valued the program because now they can go home and pick up their
children, literally pick them up and be okay and enjoy their time with their kids on the
weekends and be a weekend warrior. So all of these things that they shared with me was so impactful and so
eyeopening that it it made me realize that regardless of the leadership
support wasn't there that they were motivated. Now on the flip side I
realized imagine what the motivation and the participation level would be if there
was that leadership support. And I I just knew that that it would
have been different had there been more leadership support and participation in that program which because you know when
you was as an as a leader our job is to model that behavior that we desire for
our organization and everyone's different. There were some guys who were really um turned off
by do as I say not as I do mindset from the leaders and that impacted whether or
not they were going to support they were going to participate and then there are other guys who's like uh this is for me
which I go back to the ownership they owned it. I love the concept of perceived value and you talk about that
like when people realize that their efforts are having an impact um and they
can correlate that with quality of life improvements or the ability to fish, hunt or like you said pick up their kids
without without pain. Those are the things that that definitely drive motivation. The people who succeed at
going to the gym beyond January or February, it's because they start to see results. Maybe it's a little bit of weight loss or strength gains or their
body looks better. they just feel better. So that recognition of the benefit I think is absolutely critical
to the long-term motivation. I appreciated that you really uh honed in on that. Can I tell a real quick story? Real
really quick story is that when we rolled out this one program that
was there until I took my early retirement. There was a process in the beginning where there were assessments
that needed to be performed and these needs assessments. One of the guys who
was relatively young but had been in in in the line force for some time but he was relatively young had smaller
children and uh he tapped me on my shoulder and said can I speak to you
privately and I think I may have mentioned this in my book I don't remember but he we went to a a private
conference room and he just was very transparent and vulnerable with me and said I'm not going to be able to do that
And of course, I thanked him for being that honest and transparent. And he said,
"You know, I have a difficult time picking up my 3-year-old child from the floor."
I can bend down, but coming up is a whole different story. And my heart
really went out to this guy because I realized he was exactly the culture that
we had just mentioned about the normalization of of pain. And so I said, "You know what? I'm going to schedule
your assessment for a private one. And sure enough, it it you know, I spoke to
the vendor. The vendor said absolutely. We assessed him privately. And then word got around that they were allowed to do
those private assessments. And so more guys started tapping me on the shoulder and asking me if they can do that. So I
wanted to share that with you because I think it's important that, you know, there's that culture that, you know, we
we need just to suck it up. You know, it's it's part of our job. And yet when they're given the space to share what
they're really feeling, I didn't I didn't frown upon him. I didn't say, "What the heck?" You know, I didn't do
anything. I didn't shame him in any way, shape, or form. I truly thanked him and then provided that extra assistance. I
What motivates high-performing crews that stay engaged
to see other guys follow to do that really spoke volumes to me. So, and along those lines, did you find any
evidence that people um felt cautious about participating in
like a daily warm-up because they felt maybe embarrassment of doing movements
in front of their peers? I mean, do you feel like that plays a role in people's resistance? Absolutely, 100%. I can't agree with you
more. Yes, I witnessed it. It's part of the culture. It's part of the culture of
teasing each other. And yes, it it was a lot of and I think this was the reason
why this gentleman felt safe to come to me. I wasn't going to re ridicule him.
He knew that I was there to help and um had a passion to see them become
um painfree. But that component of embarrassment
is so high and uh some of the guys what I discovered too Dr. Kevin is that some
of the guys would mask it by either sabotaging it
um ridiculing it and and I realized oh I
see what that is. they are trying to remove themselves from it because they
know that they perhaps cannot perform those movements and so but instead of
trying and looking foolish in front of their their co-workers it's better that
I just ridicule the program and say that it's not going to work. So yes, it definitely had
that was a huge um factor. What I'm sure you came across some pretty cool pockets
within the organization where different groups worked past that fear of the
silliness of, you know, performing moves or assessments or daily warm-up in front
of others. What were some of the key components of those cultures that were able to move beyond that so that they
really did have that participation? Cuz I I think you're absolutely right. A lot
of times again there's the fear or maybe a crucible in the past that hasn't been addressed that prevents people from
wanting to do stuff because at the end of the day it's like it's for everyone's benefit. But I do see that that
self-sabotaging um mentality from time to time when I'm I'm out there. But what were some of the
best practices or the things that you saw were the key to those groups really thriving? Well, one of the constructs
that I utilized in my doctoral thesis and research was um it's called the
expense expect expectancy expectancy theory of motivation and what that is is is a construct that
helps a researcher explore what are the extrinsic andor intrinsic
motivators that play a role in someone participating. And so that was one
one was are these were these guys motivated enough intrinsically to
participate. So that was one pattern that I saw that was played a huge role
in the success of a program is the fact that they were already motivated. The second was the value that they saw. If
um a guy was 100% in and said, "I'm going to do this and started began to
experience the benefits of it, then it was a buy in 100%." And then it it was
they sustained it. Uh but the number one
factor that will determine the success or the failure of a program such as a
soft tissue injury program, prevention program is the leader. It's the leader
and the leaders of all levels. So if that initiative is approved by the
executive leadership level then it needs to be that why and the purpose needs to
be committed to the middle management level and then the middle management level needs to communicate that with
their the other level the the the the frontline management level. And here's
where there's a change. That frontline leadership now not only needs to engage
and participate, but they need to have an enthusiasm behind that. An enthusiasm
about the why. An enthusiasm about
how this is designed to prevent injuries from occurring. how it's designed to
have the employee be safe, go home the way that you came to work. But that
enthusiasm, what I call a contagious enthusiasm will set the tone because
when and as you know, right, enthusiasm is very contagious. It's like a really great laugh, right? Somebody has a great
laugh and you know, everybody's laughing. It's the same thing. And so I think it's important for that frontline leader to know that I need to be
Leadership modeling & contagious enthusiasm
enthusiastic and not only in my communication of the why but my participation. So that was the critical
element that in any program any initiative but definitely in a soft
tissue injury prevention program initiative is got to have that buy in and participation with your frontline
workers. Yeah, that was a huge huge takeaway for me as I read this because it's one thing
for executives to support it. Um, but that middle management, not only
verbally supporting it, but visibly supporting any type of initiative and being present um seems to be a real
critical u component of long-term success. So you talk about in your book
the the importance of visible leadership and middle management support being like
absolutely critical and you just gave us some great examples. Can you give us an example of where you maybe saw a lack of
middle management buyin or support and how that impacted the success of the
soft tissue injury prevention initiative. So what I noticed when I was
uh as a safety professional part of my job was to visit the locations that were
participating uh or not in these injury prevention program. And so often I would you know
stop by at the time that was allotted for them. And what I quickly noticed is
that for example the direct supervisor meaning the foreman and then the next
level which was the crew supervisor in some instances it's a superintendent
depending on the industry but um they weren't in the
room that was uh designed for them to participate and to practice their
exercise movements. And what I found was that the guys were on their own. And as
soon as I would walk back to the office and say, "Hey, what's up guys? How come you're not out there? We have work to
do. We have real work to do is what I was always told. Um where you don't we
don't have tutus today, you know." So there was just that frowning upon
ridiculing. And I found that in those locations where
the middle management direct supervisor wasn't participating with them, there was a lower engagement.
And in the areas where the direct supervisor foreman, the right the next
level up crew supervisor was participating with them and being
enthusiastic about it and showing that you know the the guys that
this is important not only through their words and what they were proclaiming but they're through their actions completely
different. there was a enga higher engagement and also I noticed uh an impact on their
morale because there is your supervisor who is walking the walk and talking the
talk and I'm it saddens me that many
leaders don't understand how important it is for their words and actions to
align and so that was my experience uh that um played a huge role in whether it
was successful or not. Yeah, I've been doing this for going on nine years now working with companies
that implementing soft tissue injury prevention programs. So that is the number one thing that we have come
across. We we've set out what are the leading indicators of success and that
middle management um buyin visible leadership and support uh is absolutely
critical and you have to have the executive support as well but those frontline leaders are so critical to the
success of an initiative. Uh the other thing that I found is is crucial for long-term success as well is
you have to have a regular cadence that just has to be built into the workday. Um, you look at every professional
sports team, like no one has to put an agenda together and say, "We're gonna warm up before before the game." It's
just like it's just part of the cadence, you know what I mean? And so your safety goggles on. Exactly. It's like, you know, the time,
the location, and the leader, and it just starts to become part of the workday. And so can you talk about just
like how building systems into the the day-to-day infrastructure can be really
important to the long-term success of any initiative. Yes. I'm going to piggyback on what you were saying is that um it has to be part
of the daily processes and protocols um procedures related to safety. Um, and
I'll and and as I'm saying this, I realized it's important to what
that particular initiative is called. So, I made a comment uh just a few
seconds ago how some of the guys would call it, you know, we did have our tutus on and I realized that and and I really
was trying to champion this is to change the name from just a flex and stretch
program to something else related to safety. When we had an an injury
prevention program, we happened to call it the stretch program. I didn't feel it had enough impact because it wasn't
synonymous with safety. So having that protocol, that processes, the systems in
place that make it a safety initiative is completely different than a stretch
program that is then frowned upon and then it doesn't have success. The other thing that I also witnessed and it was
part of my research was that there needs to be part of the systems in place needs
to be a mandate around what is the expectation level here in
terms of participation. I I'll tell you interviewing men the
Systems that make readiness part of the workday
linemen from all different workforce across the 50,000 square mile radius is that some areas said oh it's absolutely
mandatory. Well, what does that mean to you? What does mandatory mean? And mandatory had all sorts of definitions.
Well, and then other locations like, nope, it doesn't have it's not mandatory. Uh, if we don't want to be in
the room, then we can be outside and preparing our trucks ready for work. Other locations, it was interpreted as
mandatory, meant you can be in the room, but you don't have to actually participate. So that was um a huge
factor in the engagement or a lack of engagement because it was just so loose.
The the the system of the systems in place were very very loose and weren't
conducive to having you a program that would sustain because of that.
Clarity of expectations is absolutely critical. I I find it even as a dad. I mean, if if I'm doing like telling my
kids to to do chores, if if I don't have clear expectations, it's like I'm setting them up for failure. How do
companies uh clarify what the expectations are?
Like, if you if you were to look back on this research and really advise the
utility that you're working with in that situation on how to clarify expectations related to this, what what would be your
takeaway? I'm actually in that position right now as I'm serving as a safety culture change consultant
that when there isn't alignment across the
board with like for example transmission and distribution organizations
there's multiple leaders under each um umbrella of whatever that department is
that falls under transmission distribution and the the leader who's at the helm
across each organization. There has to be alignment there. There has to be a we
shall do this mentality mindset because if there isn't then it's a given that
that program a program won't be successful. So, um, I would say that it is just crit
I I'll probably say this again, I'll sound like a broken record, is that it's critical for a leader to
proclaim safety and then back it up with the actions that show that I truly do
care about safety because otherwise there is not an initiative that will survive in a culture that
isn't conducive to um engagement uh in in any particular program.
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And what I would say is like as we have this conversation, it's easy to have this
dialogue, but then when you have 10 to 15,000 employees over, you know,
multiple states and 100,000 square, you know, mile radius, it's like, yeah, how
in the world are we going to be consistent? But I think it it's it just is a reminder that you don't say it
once. Clarity happens by reiterating the message like over and over and over
again at least seven or eight times. Yeah. And just continuing to reinforce it. Say it in different ways. Say it
through different mediums and different channels. You can't stop that communication. It has to just continue
to to be a part of the dialogues. No, I really appreciate that. Let's let's
switch gears now and talk about authentic leadership. That's uh that was one of my favorite parts of of your book
is really diving into that. Um why don't you share what your definition is of
authentic leadership? When I first started exploring
authentic leadership, the authentic leadership framework, it was almost about nine years ago. And at first I
thought it was just another leadership approach, another leadership style, just much like there's transactional
leadership and and servant leadership and many others. But I quickly discovered that authentic leadership for
me became more of a lifestyle. Uh it became a way of life bottom line.
Um and the leadership authentic leadership is about leading with heart. Uh first of
all values um but understanding and asking oneself what are my values and
exploring what one's values are and then once you
think about them and and then write them out and say okay these are my values now
living by those values and having those values become your moral compass. So
then in times where you're tempted, your integrity is, you know, could be
sacrificed or, you know, could be under temptation of some kind. You're going to stick to living by your values. So for
me, part of authentic leadership, as I said, it's a way of life. I includes
living by my values. It's living leading with heart. So not just from that space
of rules and tools, but it's also leading from a place of heart. It's leading uh with passionate purpose. So
for me much like the contagious enthusiasm for me purpose has to be uh p
you know passion behind the purpose and as you know leading from thy values integrity self-discipline. So all of
these attributes fall under the umbrella of authentic leadership and especially
self-awareness. So self-awareness uh is key and there's a term called know
thyself and Bill George mentions that in his book True Norris and I also prefaced
it in my book where the process of knowing thyself is not an easy process
especially when you have those crucibles that have defined you and shaped and molded your life. So the self-awareness
key is really component and I uh very
Authentic leadership: values, heart, and self-awareness
committed to intentionally every day be aware of my triggers. You know how how
how am I being triggered and how am I reacting as a result of my triggers. So all of those things can't happen if I
don't have that self-awareness. And so that pretty much encompasses what on
authentic leadership is and and how I utilize it in my life and in my leadership roles. I love that. I'm going
to read a section on page 73 about authentic leadership because authentic leaders lead with their
hearts. They serve their people with compassion and empathy and make tough decisions from an intuitive and
cognitive space. As you learn to evolve into an authentic leader, you learn what your purpose is and lead from that
space. However, when leaders serve without passionate a passionate purpose,
they become susceptible to leading from a place of narcissism because their leadership style is ego-driven. As an
authentic leader in training, you get to learn or revisit what your core values are and then you lead from them
diligently. Authentic leaders lead from an integrity lens. Consequently, they
make decisions from a place of conviction to do the right thing, even if it is difficult. Creating trusting
relationships is also an essential mark of an authentic leader. Trust is the
foundational ingredient for building and sustaining a positive and emotionally safe work environment.
Uh I mean, we could spend two hours just talking about that paragraph, but can
you tell us that to me that kind of feels like this whole culmination of your PhD? You had all these
conversations. You looked at why initiatives either succeed or fail. You looked at leadership as being like such
an important part. How did you wrap that whole paragraph? And I mean to me it
feels like a summary of your PhD. Can you maybe explain a little bit more about that and the process that you went
through to to get to that as like the pivotal point? It's it's leading from a position of integrity and trust.
Mhm. I I'm going to go back to
when my personal journey um began with authentic leadership which
was I said about nine years ago in 2016 um I had my master's degree as I
mentioned leadership and management. So, I had been bitten by that leadership bog, but I was looking to further my
leadership competencies. And so, I hadn't contemplating a
doctoral program yet, but I was definitely looking for other programs or
certificate, you know, certifications or something that had to do with improving my leadership competencies.
So I happened to come across and my paths cross with this woman uh who is the founder of multiple women's
executive leadership programs Dr. as mean Davids and she happened to be a guest speaker where I worked in this
utility industry and she started talking about her authentic leadership the
program that her transformative executive women's leadership program and
she started talking about authentic leadership and so I was like wow I I you
know I was hooked I needed to find out more and so I started exploring and looking her up and exploring her and
eventually I interviewed applied for the program, interviewed and and was accepted.
And that pivotal moment for me, Dr. Kevin, was wow, I am not here only to
learn new technical leadership competencies. I was
in that program to look inward. And I realized that all along as a leader,
even after a master's degree program, even after my master's thesis was about how trust transforms an organization, I
was still focusing on the wrong competencies, which was rules, policies,
procedures, and I had completely dismissed or wasn't aware of how important that emotional intelligence
component is in leaders, in leadership, and transforming people, transforming
organizations. So I dove right in but it was very difficult and I had to sit back
and explore and think okay what what is my crucible? I I knew it but I hadn't
really made that connection. That paralyzing fear of water that I had had permeated all areas of my life.
That was the turning point for me and I've never gone back because I I in my research shows that when a leader
develops his authentic leadership style or in you know embeds it into his
life as a life approach or lifestyle transformation happens. It's not a
matter of if, it's a matter of when, because we are focused on leading from a
place of building relationships that are based on trust. And I was just having a
conversation with an executive leader of a company the other day and I said, you know, it's it's pretty simple in theory.
I think in practice it's more difficult but pretty simple in theory because we're human beings and the bottom line
is that we want to be h we want to be heard we want to be valued. We want to be respected. We want to be we want to
belong. And so if a leader can consider those factors and just you know be
human, there's no doubt in my mind that a leader could transform people
and in organizations through that style of leadership. That's great. And what I would say is
that I think this is such a great starting point for people, especially as they're trying to continue to grow and
build their leadership within their organization and just everyday life. And I really am glad that we got to spend
some time uh going over your book and having that conversation. Thank you so much for doing that research. Uh before
we uh close things out, I want to talk about Dungeon Fitness. I I think that that's such a cool thing. We had seen
some references like on your LinkedIn. Didn't really have a perspective of what that was. I saw your Instagram uh handle
is Dungeon Fitness as well. Yeah. Tell us about that. How did it start? So, Dungeon Fitness began roughly in
2015. I was new to this neighborhood and uh had lived all my life in another
neighborhood ever since I immigrated and never moved from there. and I was in this new area and I really was seeking
community. I was seeking to make friends and so I was also I I used to have a uh
fitness wear line and I had all this extra inventory and I wanted to get rid of it. So I decided to have a garage
sale and one of the ladies who visited my garage sale walked in and looked at
my garage which was already converted into a gym. And so this looks like a dungeon. And I kept that in mind. I
thought, "Wow, I kind of like how that sounds." And then um she shared with me and we immediately
bonded over her story, which was she was on a weight loss journey of 100 a 100
pound weight loss journey in a year. She was on track. She had lost 50 lbs but
had reached a plateau. And so as I started to share with her what my former
career was in the fitness and health industry and I said, "I can help you. I
can help you get past that plateau if you were willing to work out with me because I'm also looking for a workout
partner and we can work out here." She said, "Absolutely." And in turn, she introduced me to these amazing Signal
Hill Trails that are nearby. And she says, "Oh, you know, let's let's let's I'll introduce you to that." And I said,
"Absolutely." We bonded immediately. Within a year, she lost 115 lbs. And not
only that, she became a beast. Like uncontrollable, right? Participated in three triathlons with me. She then took
it upon herself to participate in um Spartan races, the Spartan Beast. Uh she
dragged me to this one machete madness. It was it was crazy. So she took this upon herself. She just went into beast
mode. when we would go to the Signal Hill trails together, she was only walking. And I said, "You're gonna run
this." And she said, "No, I'm not. I'm never going to run." And I said, "Okay, we'll see." And within five months, we
were running those hills like no tomorrow. And so I saw this amazing
metamorphosis occur. And then one person led to another. Like one person told
another person, and then people would drive by and say, "Hey, what's going on?" And, "Oh, come join us." And so
fast forward, I have about 27 people on my roster right now. So that's how it started.
So incredible. I love that story. And it's just such a great reminder that sometimes people just need to see what's
possible and those expanded boundaries of what what they can do and what life can look like. But often times we need
that inspiration. We need the support from a community. Can can you tell us a little bit more about the mission because obviously it's it's grown from
that one interaction to now impacting way more people. So the mission, super
simple, is to transform the lives of people in my community and beyond through
health and fitness and wellness, super simple. And that's exactly what's been happening is we are transforming the
lives of women. We have some men too. Uh eventually though they kind of fizzle
out and then usually the age group that I have is anywhere between 16 and 60.
And uh some of the ladies bring their daughters, their granddaughters, and it's just been an amazing community. Uh
I think uh I'm going to share this really quick story. One of our ladies that's been around for a long time, her
her son wasn't feeling well for some time and kept asking saying, "Something's wrong, Mom. He's 16." And
um she was trying to it's just you probably just not sleeping well. Whatever.
Whatever. Well, it turns out she eventually took him to the doctor and he has leukemia and he has um it's it's
terminal and he's currently seeking uh they're seeking help at City of Hope and
it has completely turned her life upside down as you can imagine. Sorry, I get a little emotional cuz I just saw her
yesterday and we are rallying around her. So, it's yes, is it about fitness?
Yes. Is it about you know do we want aesthetic benefits? Yes. However, now
it's really more about quality of life. But take a step further is we are a
community of women who rally around each other um through good times, bad times.
And it's I'll tell you that is the missing component in many other locations is that they don't have this
Dungeon Fitness: community, service, and sisterhood
sisterhood, this bond. And actually we we we've coined it the lady gang. So we
have a lady gang. Maria, I'm so glad that we were able to dive into that
because your story wouldn't have been complete without um that aspect. And as
I reflect on this conversation, you know, we started out talking about crucibles and uh the things in life, the
trauma, the the challenges that we experience that shape who we are. Um,
and then we talked about authentic leadership and how it comes from a place of servant leadership, really caring for
other people, living with integrity and compassion, um, and authenticity and
giving people that that space to to be who they are. U, you do that not only in
your research and your consulting, but also just in through your time, through giving to other people, through Dungeon
Fitness. And so you just to me are such a great example of an authentic leader.
And it's it's pretty cool to be able to, you know, hear all these stories, have this conversation, read about your
research in this book, but realize that that's who you are and and it comes from such a place uh of um authenticity. So,
I just so appreciate uh who you are as a person, your contribution uh to the
world, uh your commitment to helping people become the best versions of themselves, and I really think that this
conversation reflected um that. So, really appreciate your time. I thank you
to everyone uh who has joined this conversation um on the work ready podcast. Dr. Maria, any final thoughts
and and how can people find you? Well, I I you can find me on LinkedIn for sure.
I uh if you don't mind, yeah, you can share my email as well, my contact information.
And I think my only parting words is just uh for the leaders out there is
just consider your impact and your influence and how you can change the
course of your organization whether it's you know injuries, soft tissue injuries,
uh or any other initiative that you're trying to roll out is is think about the role that you play and how important it
is to be an authentic leader and to develop those relationships built on
trust because I uh I I truly believe that if we can focus on that
safety will follow. Dr. Maria, thank you so much for your time. We'll make sure to update the show
notes with your information and where people can find you on LinkedIn. Uh thank you so much for this opportunity.
I can't even tell you how grateful I am that I've been able to share my story like this. So, thank you for giving me
that platform. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for tuning in to the Work Ready podcast. Uh
we are so grateful that you're part of this community. Make sure to like or subscribe and we've got more
conversations coming up. Thank you so much and uh stay safe.