The Power Element Podcast | Episode 49

Paul Salgado | Power Element Podcast

Dr. Kevin Rindal | Vimocity

You need to continually be a guy on the rise.

This that is a reasonable expectation as opposed to just coming in here and putting in the time.

What do I mean by that?

I mean, the things that made you viable in the past aren't going to be the things that make you viable in the moving forward.

You gotta be continually pressing to get better.

That's a quote from, Mike Tomlin, head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

That was pretty good for the conversation we have today with you and Kevin. You like that quote?

Love it.

So happy to be here, man.

All the way from Seattle? Yeah. Wasting about the weather today? So good to see the sun.

We've this time of year is pretty rough in in the Pacific Northwest, but, yeah, I love seeing the sun here.

You guys are kinda going in a little bit, no snow. Right? No snow No. Which is weird. Right?

It was just late snow. Oh. So we got hit pretty hard in March, first part of March up in the mountains. My family skis a ton, so they got like almost five feet of snow in about a week. So, yeah, we've been hitting the hitting the slopes up.

You You can do a lot of Seattle, right?

A lot of, lot of activities, you know, like water mountains, some some coffee, I guess too, right? For sure.

Yeah. I know. I spent most of my life there. What I love is you can be on the water in the morning, be up in the mountains in the afternoon.

So everything's super close, but Hiking too, right?

Hiking. Yeah. You're in biking. You're a runner too, right?

You're like one?

Trail run.

There you go. Trail running. Good stuff.

Doing a 50k this weekend.

Fifty k this weekend?

Yeah. 50k.

Just, just like that.

Just like that.

Let's talk about that real quick. Where where's the incident? It can be in Seattle?

It's actually up in Bellingham, which is about an hour and a half north of Seattle.

So And is this, something Kevin does three times a year?

Yeah. This year, it's gonna be I've been doing one, this weekend and then one in May, and then a half Ironman, in September. So Half Ironman. Yeah. But this is stuff I've done for, like, twenty years. It's just I operate my best when I'm I have a goal, I'm moving, all that stuff. So Yeah.

For sure. That's good stuff.

For me, it's just much, like, therapy as it is, you know, wanting to accomplish a goal.

I appreciate your passion. That's cool. I I did one marathon in my life, and that's, that's good enough for me. I could do a five k maybe, but other than that Yeah.

Stick to it. Yeah. Cool, man. Good luck.

Yeah. Thank you.

You're going you're going for PR? You're just kinda kinda No. Chugging along?

Just chugging along. Yeah. It should be fun.

That's cool, man.

I we'll go back a little bit. Like, I wanna talk about early, Kevin. Where'd you grow up, and and we'll get into your story.

Yeah. For sure. Grew up in Washington state, kinda born and raised there. And, yeah, everyone in my family was farmer, fisherman, or logger, or chiropractor.

And so, yeah, so just grew up with, you know, hardworking people all around me.

My dad was a chiropractor or is a chiropractor. And, so I I saw that. I always played a lot of sports growing up. And when I was a junior in high school, I was super passionate about football. That was what I wanted to do going into college. Had a couple of pretty big injuries, separated my shoulder and multiple concussions.

And then went into my senior year, you know, same story, concussions, ended up having to stop playing football. And so it was really one of those things where it's like, man, my whole life has been focused on, you know, wanting to actually be the athlete out there on the field, but realize that, you know, I also had this passion for helping other people. And so went down the path of going into, sports medicine and chiropractic school, really wanted to help elite and professional athletes perform at their highest level. And, so had the chance to work with the US Olympic team for about thirteen years.

Ten of those were with the US Olympic swim team as part of their sports medicine staff and also worked with US women's ice hockey and just had a phenomenal time actually being able to work with these athletes to perform at their highest level, recover from injuries, prevent injuries. And, it really you know, for me, I'd lived that personal experience of having an injury keeping me out from doing the things that I was passionate about.

And so, yeah, that's a huge part of my growing up.

Going back to it while while you're becoming a a doctor of chiropractic, chiropractor?

Yeah.

Is there do you have to make a shift of, like, okay, I wanna work with, highly high performing athletes or I want to be kind of just, working with everyday folk. Is there is there a shift or is that kind of just after once once?

You know, because I I had my own clinic as well. So Okay. And I practiced with my dad for a few years as well. So, like, I spent a lot of time. I mean, a majority of the time was actually working with every day.

People, hardworking people, you know, athletes who just wanted to perform at a high level. And then working with the professional athletes was that was definitely, like, side project, passion project. And so, that was outside of my clinic.

But yeah. What made that shift? How'd you get from that that that next level and into that career?

Yeah.

You know, I again, I had aspirations for myself to to become an athlete and I was like, you know what? If I'm not gonna be able to to do that, at that level, I wanna be able to help others be able to perform at their highest level. And I just remember, man, I was like I guess it was the nineteen eighty four Olympics. I I still remember watching those Olympics and I was like, I was just so much respect for these athletes.

And it's like, if I could do anything, it would be use my skills, use my gifts to be able to help those athletes perform at the at that level. And so it just became a passion project. And, I mean, I married an amazing woman who, Dana, and lot, during, you know, basically from twenty ten to twenty sixteen, pursuing that. And it it just opened up a lot of really cool opportunities.

I think, when you kind of just when you say it, you that you were part of the US Olympic team, but last week where I was on a webinar and you showcased a photo of you, behind Michael Phelps at the award ceremony.

And I think that puts a little perspective of how how how close you were to that kind of greatness and to be a part of that team.

Yeah. I mean, I look back and I'm, like, just eternally grateful. I mean, the two thousand six Olympic, swim team, and that was the most successful Olympic team in history. They won thirty four medals and, yeah, I got to spend ten years with, Michael Phelps and, you know, you think about Katie Ledecky and Missy Franklin and Ryan Loch. There are just so many amazing athletes that came through during that time period. And, I was just fortunate to be a part of that team at that that time frame.

Yeah. I think that's super unique. You're talking about one percent of a one percent already or even less than that. That's just that's just, it's just amazing. That's crazy.

Well, it's yeah. And what's amazing is that the same people keep showing up. It's like they have this mindset of, like, I belong here, and so I'm gonna make this team. And you think about, you know, the hundreds and thousands of people that are going for those one or two positions on the team, but they keep showing up. And when they get to those competitions, they're like yeah. I I I'll never forget.

If you don't mind me telling the story, like No, please do.

Yeah. Michael Phelps, you know, his he and his coach, his coach Bob Bowman, like, legendary coach. And, and they had a little bit of a contentious relationship at times, but, they pushed each other.

But Bob would always have Michael, do this one workout where he would this is when he was at the University of Michigan, where he'd shut off all the lights in the pool And he'd have Michael swim with no goggles, and he'd just have to do lap after lap after lap. And so it was just basically him becoming so comfortable in the pool. He knew where he was every single stroke. And Michael hated it because, I mean, you're swimming hard completely blind. And, but then he gets into the Olympics and, and it was two thousand twelve.

Most, competitive event for him, which is the two hundred meter butterfly, he jumps in and his goggles fall off, like, within the first couple seconds.

And so he you know, most of us at that point, we were like, race is over. I mean, it it comes down to, like, point one hundredths of a second. It's like, any type of disadvantage like that, you're like, it's over.

But he had practiced, like, time and time again swimming completely blind. And so he swims that race, and not only does he win the race and wins the gold medal, but he sets a world record. And we think about how audacious it is to even set a world record. I mean, fastest time that that event has ever been swam in history, and you did it basically blind the entire time.

I mean, it just goes to show, like, what level of resilience, mental fortitude those athletes have to perform at perform at that level. So, yeah, it, like, it was so cool to be a part of those type of moments and, you know, just in the back and, we're seeing history here. Yeah. That's that's really cool.

And I I just think about that too. And we'll get to the conversation later.

I'll kinda jump ahead right now for for the the case of the conversation. But you're talking about the preparation and the performance of a high performing athlete, that is at their peak. Everything's right. Everything's been documented and geared towards this this this event, and you have unforeseen instance happen just like on the job or just like anything, and you still kinda have that high standard and you're able to compete and and and win. So that's cool.

Go ahead.

Yeah. No. But I think it goes back to, like, we should all, you know, in a sense, be preparing for the unexpected. And because you never especially in a work type situation where you're talking about high energy hazards and all these other things that are going on, like, keeping your head in the game and and practicing for those moments when you can't predict what's gonna happen. I mean, that's ultimately what sets you apart and keeps you safe.

Yeah. Essentially, if he if it shocked him when the goggles fell off, there's no chance he's gonna perform as high as he did. Like, it was just continuing about my business. Like, that's amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. Really good example.

What else did you you're you're applying your your your skill, your craft, to to help be a part for them, the athletes to to to peak perform. But what what did you notice different about Olympic athletes?

What what sets them apart?

Yeah. I mean, I think it just goes back to they're so focused on the bigger picture. Like, they have a coach to help them from a nutrition standpoint. They have a coach to help them, like, strength training outside of the pool.

They have a coach that helps them when they're in the water. They they're, like, so detailed when it comes to recovery. And, yeah, I I think what it showed me is to have that level of precision is really I mean, it's essential at that level. You you can't not focus on different areas.

And I think, you know, all of them also had, sports psychologists who worked with them. I mean, because so much of performing at that level also is just, like, what's going on between the ears and how are you keeping yourself sharp in those moments? Because there are so many highs and lows and, so, yeah, I think I really appreciated seeing just how dialed in they were in so many different areas of of, their life and their performance.

Is there anything you utilize now reflecting back on that time?

Yeah. I mean, for me, we had a sports psychologist who traveled with us when when we would go and phenomenal coaches. And so I oftentimes think back to to some of those moments where, you know, there was adversity and, the team worked through that.

There are simple things that I do in my own life, like, I have a a Woot band, which yeah. We we both have them. And so, like, thinking about, like, my recovery, I mean, that's something that I'm super dialed in every day. Like, what is my sleep quality? What are the things that are gonna impact my ability to recover?

Just because it's like, I wanna perform at a high level, not only for myself, physically or from a business perspective or, you know, most importantly for my family. I I I wanna be able to, you know, be my best friend with them as well. So, that's a simple tool that I took away from, working with them.

Yeah. That's cool. And that's, I think it's a natural progression too as far as, like, once you look into compete at the high level and just compete.

I'll share examples, like, our rodeo team, that that performs a high level. They wanna win. They show up to win. Sometimes that's not the case, but but the goal is always to win.

But when I talk to Dan, Steve, and Enoch, like, they are they're looking for, ways to to increase their skill by half half a seconds, half a second or, you know, even small. Anything they can kinda do to to better put themselves in a better position to win. So, and that was just a natural progression. Like, we're we're working amongst each other to to to get that.

And I think those good crews naturally do that too on the job too. So, Yeah. I'm I'm already kind of breaking my own rules, staying staying in a path here, but, we'll shift. I wanna get into what you do.

Obviously, you're passionate and you got some great experience. That's neat. So I I bet you're looking forward to the Olympics.

Well, it's summer.

Oh, it's Yeah. Yeah.

Summer twenty twenty four.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been pretty cool, Yeah.

Yeah. So it's it's fun to be able to watch them from, you know, the living room and be able to just think back to those moments. And my kids are now fourteen and eleven, and so it's pretty cool to, you know I mean, they were pretty tiny when I was when I was traveling with the team. And so just being able to share some of those stories with them is is really fun.

That's cool, man.

It's, it's incredible. Yeah. Good for you.

Alright. Let's let's get into what you do now.

How that how that past shift from you to the Olympic, Kevin, to what you do now?

Yeah. So in twenty sixteen, I had just come back from working with, the Olympic team, and my my focus was on helping these athletes, basically, put together a framework for how to take care of their bodies. And so a lot of it was preparation for activity, recovery from activity.

If someone had, like, a sore shoulder, tight lower back, things like that, you know, that was where I did a lot of the hands on on work with the team.

But in twenty sixteen, some executives from utility in Seattle were I'm based out of where patients of mine in the clinic and they're like, hey, Kevin. What you're doing with the Olympic team, can you bring that to to our workforce? Because, you know, sprains strain or soft tissue injuries are the number one injury that we experience. And so, had the opportunity to do a pilot with about twelve hundred of their members of their workforce.

So it was electric linemen, substation employees, gas techs, hydro employees, in generation. And, so we basically ran a pilot with them. We did, functional movement screens for all the the different workers, and they gave them a framework for how to take care of their body. And it was really eye opening for me because, you know, I lived in this world every day of, like, body care and recovery and stuff like that.

But just when I started working with them, I'm like, man, the workforce, like, the information that they have and the way that we're teaching them to take care of their bodies, it's like twenty five years outdated. Like, no athlete would approach taking care of their body this way.

But Touch your toe.

Yeah. Exactly. But, I mean, the thing is it's like these are some of the most highly skilled people in their crafts.

They know how to take care of, like, equipment, take care of the grid, repair, you know, power poles in in major storms and power lines, but we never give them the fundamentals of how to take care of their their bodies. And so that was the, you know, my first moment is that, you know, we needed to teach people the fundamentals so that just like brushing and flossing their teeth or maintaining their tools, their equipment, people understand what to do for their muscle and joint health so that they don't go down this road of just, you know, grinding every day and breaking down their bodies. And

and it honestly, it struck a chord with me because my grandfather, he was, like, a pipe fitter for probably forty years, and he raised cattle on the side. And by the time he was in his sixties, he was so broken down, he could literally hardly stand up at the end of the day. And he used to tell me things like, hey, Kevin. This is what getting old looks like.

And, you know, so from a ten year old perspective, it was like, yeah. Maybe that is what it looks like to get old. But then as I got into health care, I started realizing, man, this is not how life should look like. There are things that people can do to, to offset that pain, stiffness, and soreness, and life does not have to look that way.

And so this really started to become a a passion for me to be able to work with the workforce, give them that framework, give them the tools so that, you know, hopefully, they can get to the end of their careers retiring strong so that they can do the things that they care about.

Did you have to shift your perspective in, your skill set from a sports athlete towards, and I'll take I'll I'll steal your word from the webinar to for to industrial athlete.

What's that what's that look like? Are you kinda dealing with the same kind of, problems?

Or Yeah.

I mean, the human body tends to break down the same way whether you're an elite athlete or a lineman. I mean, we we do a lot of those similar tasks, and that's why I think there's such a strong correlation. Like, alignment or a gas tech, they are athletes. What the stuff that they do every day, they're putting their bodies in positions that are, oftentimes awkward positions when they're working and they're straining their body, and they're gonna feel shoulder tightness. They're gonna feel back pain. And so so there it wasn't a huge stretch between the two and and being able to relate that. I think for me, the big thing was understanding what people did day in and day out so that the way that we delivered the information really honored the work that they did and do, so that we could, you know, adapt these concepts to to what was relevant to them.

Do you think the industry utilizing those twenty five year old principles, do you think they just were just kind of hoping this people would take care of themselves, there was a lack of, understanding?

What what do you think that kind of falls under? Well because I'll agree I'll agree I'll agree with you. Typically, it's it's it's pretty informal and there's, there's a walk through of it, but, like, to actually understand it is a whole different meaning.

Right? Yeah. For sure.

You know, the activities that help somebody prepare their body for activity or to take care of their muscle and joint health, it requires some initiative, and it it requires people to be engaged in that. And I think that, you know, I spent fifteen years trying to get patients to do their exercises. It was like an uphill battle. I mean, we're talking about behavior change.

We're talking about getting people to buy in. And so I think that in general, like, you know, that standard stretch and flex at the start of the the day, oftentimes, it can be a point of contention because people are like, I don't wanna do this. And then management is like, it's taking too much time. And and so it just feels like there's a little bit of a rub there to start out with.

And so oftentimes, that preparation just becomes a check the box. It's like, okay. We we did it. But I think that when people understand the bigger picture and realize that, number one, for the workforce, when they do these things, it actually helps their body feel better and so that they can hunt, fish, do all the things that they care about outside of work.

I mean, that's the incentive for them. For for the company, it's like, man, when our athletes or workforce athletes are performing at a higher level, I mean, everyone wins. Like, we're doing better quality work.

People's heads are in the game. Our workforce is feeling better. We're taking care of them. So I I think that that dynamic of this aspect could be a lot healthier if if it was just approached in the right way and we gave people, you know, that bigger picture in terms of the incentives on both sides.

I like your analogy too of or bringing awareness too. Like, we're trained to construct a power pole or or or troubleshoot and then even to to run equipment. But then when you talk about our bodies, we're we're so focused on the work that we kinda forget about that, and that kinda falls second.

But that's probably the more more important things we should be Oh, yeah.

Focused on every day. So I think developing those soft skills of understanding of one leadership, which we kinda we we we like to approach, Stear Lush, California. And then just that, getting that knowledge of of kinda what you guys are doing.

Yeah. But you have to approach it from a what's in it for me for especially for, the workforce. Like, they have to understand the bigger picture and, like and I'm so grateful that my company provides me the time to to do this. Like, if if you can get to that level and then the company is like, man, this is such a priority.

You're our greatest asset. We're gonna give you this time. We're gonna give you the tools, the knowledge, resources. It just creates a really healthy dynamic and I've seen it just, you know, transform companies in terms of their effectiveness or efficiency, that trust between, you know, the workforce and the the management.

So, yeah, I think it can be a really positive thing when it's done well.

Yeah. I think to your point is, the work's always gonna be there, and the utility work is typically equipment is heavy, and the the the the materials are only getting heavier, it seems like. So at what capacity can you perform these tasks and not hurt yourself so you can hunt, you can fish, you can lift up your your kids, you can you can throw around the ball in as as near as a pain free opportunity, you can enjoy life a little bit better, and then you can be happy to go to happy to go to work.

Totally. Unfortunately, we live in this society, though, that's, like, totally reactive. And so, you know, all pain is is it's the body's warning system going off saying, hey. There's a problem here.

But oftentimes, when the fire alarm's going off, we just get the fire extinguisher and we try to put out, you know, the fire, fire alarm. And it's like, we throw ibuprofen, we throw a six pack of beer at the end of the day. We do all these things to try to numb the pain, but we don't necessarily, like, address what the actual problem is. And and that's where if we can give people the tools and the knowledge so that they can problem solve stuff before it becomes something bigger, and they are on a regular maintenance program for their body, like, that's that can oftentimes offset a lot of those, you know, reactive approaches to to pain that we oftentimes fall into.

And then it's just not for the day. You're talking about building a program or building good habits, that ensure that you have a long, resilient career Yeah. That you can meet the demands. Correct?

Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah.

What typically works when you're kinda rolling out of, if a company or individual kind of works, informal or formal approach towards a mobility program.

Yeah. So we actually partnered with this group out of Colorado to look at the research because I would say that there was a lot of trial and error in the first, you know, few years of doing this. Like, man, how do we make something that sticky that really is impactful and continues to grow so that it becomes part of the culture? And, I mean, there was a lot of, you know, learning during that period, but, basically, we've boiled it down to there are three aspects that really drive long term engagement.

Number one is upper management engagement and the middle management engagement. So, like, at the executive level when they're like, man, this is a priority. We're gonna give our team the tools, resources. We're gonna support this.

This is part of our culture and our mission and who we are. And then the middle management, you know, there there are people who, you know, maybe a supervisor who are overseeing a crew. So them also being supportive of that and saying, hey. This is a priority before we go out for the day or before you know, once we get out to the site, we're gonna do a couple things to make sure that we're ready to go and we're ready to perform.

So number one is, leadership buy in. Number two is that it's integrated into the infrastructure because I mean, let's face it. Every utility, they're so busy. There's, like, ten times more work to be done than we actually have time to perform.

And so anything that takes away from that productivity oftentimes falls by the wayside. So, you know, how can you ensure that just by showing up to work, people are, you know number one, like, it's just part of going to work. Like, part of the tail board or the pre job briefing. It's like you know that you're gonna spend three to five minutes rolling out your muscles or doing a dynamic warm up to prepare for that activity.

Or we're continuing to educate people, like, two minutes here, two minutes there. They teach people about body position or the impact of dehydration on the way that their brain functions or the way that their muscles function. Because when people have that knowledge, it it really does drive behavior change. If people don't understand the bigger picture, they're not gonna make a change, and they're not gonna be incented to.

So, continuing to integrate and educate the workforce is step number two. And then number three is that there's a new employee onboarding program where just by joining this company, they're exposed to, hey. This is how we approach preventing these type of injuries and how we take care of our workforce so that that's somebody's first experience, enjoying that company. And so that the sustainability is built in because, I mean, sprain and strain or soft tissue injuries make up forty to sixty percent of all injuries with the utility company.

And so it's like, this is low hanging fruit. If we can just, like, give people a little bit of framework, you can shift the needle pretty drastically just by a focused approach to this this issue.

What what does that time loss look like for for a company when you got to talk about forty, sixty percent of injuries looking like a sprain and strain?

I mean, what OSHA tells us is that the average sprain strain injury, requires about thirteen days away from work. So it's either days away or loss or restricted time. So, I mean, you you start to multiply that, especially if you're an organization of, let's say, three thousand people. That can be pretty impactful from a productive standpoint.

So would you say with a a movement health program with with a a fundamental knowledge of how to, your body works and and building resilience, in your body.

You're working towards preventing those injuries. Is that is that kinda how that works?

Yeah. Yeah. And, like, for us, we're pretty insane about looking at injury statistics with our customers to make sure that we're heading in the right direction. And, I mean, the thing that compelled me to retire from sports medicine, sell my clinic, like, do all that stuff is because in that first year of doing that pilot with that, utility company, they dropped their soft tissue injury rate by fifty three percent in one year.

And then we got, like, all this feedback from people just in terms of, like, the impact that had on their quality of life. And then the CEO of that company started telling other utilities, the person who had customers in Florida and Oklahoma, and we're seeing the exact same results. And I'm like, man, I could spend the next thirty years working with patients one on one in my clinic, or we could work with tens of thousands of people across, you know, this country and really have a profound impact on the way, you know, people move and feel the impact on the businesses. And and I always say that, like, a soft tissue injury, they oftentimes don't fall into that stiff category like serious injury and fatality.

But from my perspective, just being in this is that I do think that these soft tissue injuries can actually be life altering injuries. I mean, I've seen so many people over the course of my career who have a back issue in it. It impacts the rest of their life. And so and if we can give people those tools so that they understand how to maintain their bodies, they don't have to go down that same path. And so, I just I'm so motivated every day and I think a lot of that goes back to story with my grandpa. I'm like, I saw someone who is super close to me stop living, at a pretty young age because they I mean, they're just so impacted by the stress and strain that was placed on their body every day at work, and it doesn't have to be that way. And so to me, this is, like, a huge opportunity to to impact people.

Yeah. So I think, you bring a lot of good points when you talk about serious injury or fatality, like identifying those. But understanding that if you have a injured shoulder and you're doing performing a task or a procedure, you might compensate that task because the injured shoulder or that achy back that could lead you into a poor work habit that leads to a serious injury or fatality.

Sure. Yeah. No. I mean, things can unwind pretty quickly. And, you know, we know that even just being in pain, like, not even talking about movement, But when people are in pain, it it physiologically changes the way that their brain functions, and we start to shift into more of that, like, fight or flight mode rather than, you know, being calm.

And so we'll start to make different decisions. We'll start to take shortcuts. We'll start to, you know, almost become tunnel vision so that we're less aware of hazards that are around us. And so I do think that there's actually a pretty strong correlation between this movement health aspect pain and people's ability to be safe on the job and also, you know, their coworkers being safe.

Yeah. That's great.

How do you take take inventory of your body? How do you kind of manage that? Like, if if it if it's just me standing there to gain inventory of my pain a lot, what's what's that kinda look like?

Yeah. So, you know, oftentimes, we talk about, like, taking a three sixty walk around of your vehicle Absolutely. Before you do work or take a three sixty walk around of your tool, evaluate it, make sure it's ready to go. But, like, I mean, one of the things that we teach people is, like, take a three sixty and walk around of your body.

Like, take inventory, like, start from the feet and go on the way up. And, you know, if you've got an area that's tight and sore, like, address it. And so, like, with our program, I mean, we have app, we've got tools, things like that that allow people if they have a tight shoulder or tight lower back, they can just select that area of their body, and it shows them what they need to do to to work that area out. But, again, it's it's teaching people these life skills of how to problem solve stuff in the earliest stages rather than just saying, oh, I just hope it goes away or this is just part of the job.

What I always found in my clinic, my my goal was always I would tell people, my goal is not to see you. If I'm not seeing you, I'm doing my job.

Yeah.

And so, like, every interaction, I was focused on how can I give these people one or two things that they can use on their own so that it I mean, because we're all gonna wake up with a tight neck? We're all gonna wake up with the tight lower back, but the power is in having the knowledge to be like, okay. My back's tight. I understand how my body works a little bit better.

I can use this, you know, ball to roll out this muscle. I can do these motions. I can, you know, engage my core and do do these breathing exercises. And you can oftentimes ratchet that pain down to the point where it starts to put the body in a position where it can start to heal and recover.

The body's amazing at healing and recovering. We just oftentimes don't put it in the best position to be able to actually do that.

Good point.

One other thing that I will say, going back to, when I mentioned that we did the functional movement screens, we actually did, like, over six thousand functional movement screens on, on industrial athletes over a couple year period. And the functional movement screen is is kinda like the gold standard for a movement assessment. So you look at seven different movements. You look at shoulder mobility, back mobility, hip mobility, things like that.

And, so we took about fifteen hundred people. We took them through the functional movement screen. These were all utility workers. And then we gave them a very simple program.

So, like, rolling their muscles, focus on diaphragmatic breathing, and then dynamic movements. And we targeted the areas that of their body that, you know, maybe were restricted. So if they had shoulder mobility, they'd focus on a a program that was a little bit more focused for the shoulder.

We then, came back ten weeks later, and we retested those people. And on average, people, did that routine about three days per week. But what was pretty cool is that the group in the sixty plus year old category, when we retested them, they tested better than the forty year olds did at their onset. And that was huge because what it showed us is that, you know, so many people live in this mindset of, like, I'm just getting older or, you know, this is part of the job or I can never get better.

And, I mean, for us, it was like we have empirical evidence that shows that actually you can make a difference. You can, you know, reduce that those mobility restrictions, and it doesn't have to be that way. And so it was really powerful, I think, testimony of it doesn't take exercise. It doesn't take all this stuff that's gonna take a lot of time.

It's just, like, really simple things on a consistent basis can have a profound impact on the way that people move and feel.

Do you think I think being young yeah, that mindset is like, nothing really hurts, I'm gonna feel this way forever. And then maybe to to your point, your your studies show that the sixty year olds maybe had a different approach where it's like, I am at the end of my career, and I'm trying to feel the best that I can possibly can, so I'm gonna have a different mindset. Is that you think that was part of it or No?

No. I just think that I think up to that point, they were just like, oh, this is just the way that it is. But what's interesting is when they did the functional movement screen, I think it was an eye opening experience for them because, you know, it challenges your your balance. It challenges your ability to, like, step and do different things.

And so I think for a lot of people, it's like you don't oftentimes know how restricted you are until you actually put yourself in a position where you're where you're testing yourself. And so, like, one of the moves is, like, you have a bar over your shoulder and you step over this wire and the wire's, you know, about as high as your your knee. And so it's amazing how simple of a task is, but how few people can actually do that with stability. And then you start correlating it to, you know, this height is actually about the height of a bathtub.

So you're sixty years old and you're having trouble getting in and out of a bathtub. You know? You start putting things in context and people are like, man, I remember my dad or my mom. You know, by the time they got sixty, seventy years old, like, it was hard for them to move.

I don't wanna end up that way. And so I think for a lot of people, the nice part about it is it sets a baseline and it gives them that motivation of saying, man, I want my life to look different than the people around me as I age. And, I mean, I I still remember my grandma had to put my the socks on my grandpa, like, you know, towards the end of his life. And he was, like, sixty five, sixty seven years old.

I mean, you should be able to put your socks on, but for a lot of people, if if you if you don't use it, if you don't challenge it, if you don't work on it, you do lose your mobility, and and mobility is key to so many other areas of our life from a quality perspective.

But when you talk about that as a lineman or as a construction any any utility, you're you're moving, you're you're using your muscles. What what's the what's the stark difference to actually being intentional with with the program?

Well, again, going back to, I think, work with athletes. Athletes always tell you that recovery is more important than the the training because if you just train, train, train, but don't focus on recovery, you're gonna start to fall into a breakdown, mode. So so every athlete was, like, insane about their recovery.

Most of the workforce again, this is just observational. Sure. They work, work, work, but when it comes to recovery, there's not a lot happening. And so it's just that cumulative effect. So I'm a strong believer that, you know, if you are moving well, you're putting your body in the strongest position. When you're performing your job tasks, it's an opportunity to actually make your body stronger rather than breaking down.

So, like, if I'm an athlete in the gym, I'm gonna be more focused on the way that I'm lifting the weights and putting myself in in the strongest position versus the amount of weight that I'm lifting. Because the only way that my body gets stronger is if I I'm leveraging the right muscles, I'm moving in the right way.

But, again, for the workforce, what we found, especially doing, like, some of the functional movement screens early on, is that a lot of basic movements, people physically cannot get their body in the right position. So if I can't get my body in the right position where I'm working ten to fourteen hours a day, that means I'm increasing the stress that I'm that's being placed on my body. So it's kinda like, what I mean, here's a great example. You see, like, somebody with restricted shoulder mobility in their overhead worker.

If I can't lift my shoulder up high, I'm gonna rotate my lower back Yeah. To try to compensate. And so without knowing it, I'm putting more stress on another area of my body and that's, you know, that's breaking me down. So, again, I think we're talking less about exercise because if you tell a lineman who works fourteen hours a day, you need to go and exercise, they're like, I just spent fourteen hours moving all day long.

I don't wanna do that.

So that's where there's the difference between exercise and moving, but mobility is really focusing on getting your body to move the way that it was designed to move.

Good point.

Take us through a muscle knot. I I know there's gonna be there's gonna be a way to approach a muscle knot whether to stretch or to roll out. Yeah. Can you walk us through that?

Yeah. Yeah. So, what's fascinating about the body is, like, it's completely connected. So, like, from the bottom of my foot all the way up the back of my leg, back of my spine, all the way to the base of my skull, it's one continuous piece of tissue.

So think about it like my shirt. And my shirt's probably, like, five or six different pieces of fabric that are sewn together that give me the arms, the body, things like that. That's that's the way that the muscles are put together. And within each layer of muscle, there's what what's called fascia, connective tissue.

And so the connective tissue is what binds everything together. It's even in our abdominal organs, like everything's connected through fascia.

And so what can happen is if we are chronically overusing a muscle or maybe we have an injury, the muscle will get damaged and the body will repair itself by laying down, basically what we call myofascial adhesion. So it's it's a network of muscle tissue plus that fascia. And so that's what forms a knot. And I think we all can appreciate, like, what a knot feels like. I mean, just just feel at the top of your shoulders, like, okay. That's a muscle knot.

Muscle knots are actually a good thing in to a certain, perspective because it's reinforcing an area that's been injured and damaged.

But what it will do is over time, it will start to to shorten the length of that muscle. And so, like, let's say I strain my hamstring. The hamstring is on the back of the leg. It attaches to the pelvis. So if I have, one of my hamstrings is shorter than the other, every time I take a step, every time I bend down, there's an uneven pull on my pelvis because one side is shorter than the other. And so, like, one of the most common causes of lower back pain is actually a problem with the hamstring and you have those myofascial adhesions. And so, if you think about it, like, if I have a, a knot in a rope or a tie knot in a rope, that rope is gonna get shorter.

Absolutely.

But if I pull on it, that knot's not going away.

So what we've traditionally taught people is that you should just stretch out your muscles if they're tight.

Absolutely.

But what all the research is showing is that actually probably what it's doing is it's probably pulling on the tendons that attach to the pelvis, attached to the back of the knee. I mean, here's a classic example of doing this type of stretch at the start of the day. I mean, all of us have probably done that stretch, but if I've used my muscles for thirty years wrenching, grabbing, grasping, doing all those things. I probably have a lot of myofascial adhesions in my form.

So when I do the stretch, I'm probably pulling on the tendons and I'm actually putting myself more at risk for, like, tendonitis or things like that. So we actually brought the roller. So, I mean yeah. What you can, like, literally do in that situation is actually roll out the muscle in what, all the research shows is that it increases the blood supply to that muscle, increases oxygen.

It starts to realign the fibers, where that myofascial adhesion have occurred. And when those fibers are more aligned, it increases the flexibility. So instantaneously, I can increase the flexibility of that muscle and I can heat it up. I can warm it up without ever having to put it on stretch.

And so, again, what an athlete is gonna focus on is that they're gonna focus on rolling first because then you can, you know, get those muscles warmed up, not put it on stretch. It's not that stretching is bad. I still stretch. I do it at the end of the day.

I do it after rolling. It's just that the order that we teach people is probably improper. So, like, with the workforce athletes that we work with, I mean, everyone gets a roller, they carry it in their truck with them, they get like a lacrosse ball type thing on a rope, and so that they can really target those areas where the muscles have become tight and sore. And it it's pretty cool because people feel instantly better.

They have better flexibility, and it's just one tool that they can use to to, you know, fine tune their body or or, you know, impact an area that's tight that they can't stretch out. And so that it prevents that cycle of then just them working through it and hoping it goes away and then having it turn into a compensation injury.

And you're releasing those good endorphins. Right?

Totally.

A hundred percent of dope good some good dopamine.

Good dopamine.

So you're gonna feel good. You're gonna actually physically and mentally feel a little bit better. Right?

Totally. Hundred percent. That's cool.

Yeah.

Alright. Something something you guys kind of talk about, with with your company, we'll get into a little bit later, but, rolling, breathing, and moving. Yep. So what's that kind of look like? I'm I'm I'm walking up to a pole. I got my tools on and and what what what's kind of the process that you kinda recommend there?

Yeah. For sure. So, again, we've gotta be practical. I mean, people can't spend twenty minutes till they get to a job site.

But, oftentimes, the way that we approach it is that, you know, at the start of the day, people spend five minutes doing that rolling, breathing, and moving, and I'll explain a little bit why. But oftentimes, the dynamic is then people jump in their trucks. They drive forty five minutes to a job site. They're sitting in traffic, and then they go to perform, a job task, and their body's, like, shut down again.

It's cold. So it's like, I I personally think the best thing to do is to just spend, like, two minutes just preparing your body for that activity. So, a little bit about breathing. So breathing, like, we oftentimes think about, like, our strength of our core being related to, like, if we have a six pack, like, do we have those abdominal organs or abdominal muscles working?

But really our the core of our core is our ability to engage our diaphragm and our pelvic floor and create pressure in our core that supports our spine. So, Paul, you can do this. You can kinda take a breath in, push down, and you can feel when you tighten, that's creating that stability. Right.

A lot of us go through life when we never engage those muscles at all. And so, what will happen is that there's this whole mechanism in the brain where if, if we're getting ready to perform a task, if we train that cycle, our brain will automatically engage those muscles so that we get that stiffening of our spine so that when we're performing a task, we have a strong core because that core is where all of our our force and our our strength comes from.

But for people who don't work on that and they don't engage their, those muscles, then they don't have that same level of pressure. And you and I were talking about this earlier. It's kinda like you have a full water bottle and when you push down on that water bottle, it's rock solid. But if you take a little bit of that water out and you try to push down on it, it's just floppy.

And so if I can't engage my core, if I can't create that pressure, it puts all the stress on the ligaments of my spine, the discs of my spine, and so that's when people blow out discs like bending down to pick a wrench up off the ground. Their brain connection with their core muscles is not working. So, so that's number one. Number two is the the movement, the dynamic movement.

So doing movements with your body, they're gonna mimic the type of work that you're gonna be doing. So if you're gonna be climbing a pole, it's getting your hip, hip joints moving. And and so it's taking your body through a range of motion. It's getting your your shoulders moving so that you can get ready to to do that type of a dynamic movement.

And the way that I I think about it is it's like a batter in a batter's box. I mean, they did a warm up at the start of the game, but then every time they go up to go to bat, they use a weighted bat in the on deck circle and they take a few cuts. And what they're really doing more than anything is they're getting all their muscles of their joints ready to perform that movement, but neurologically, they're they're telling their brain that I'm about ready to do this motion. And so start to to prepare for that type of activity.

And the the body is way more efficient, when we prepare it for that type of an activity and and we're a lot safer because our body is, you know, stronger. It's it's the muscles are firing better neurologically.

We're more prepared to perform that task. So, I know it's pretty deep level, but roll, breathe, move is easy to remember and it's it's pretty simple. It takes, like, three to five minutes to to do, but scientifically, it's the best way to prepare your body for that activity.

And I don't think I think most of us could probably acknowledge that we've learned about stretching or rolling at some capacity, but then you kinda implement that breathing and you're just kinda like, strengthen your diaphragm and what that does and how that could help you, perform better, like and actually just being a part of your everyday routine, just being being stronger, have building a better diaphragm. Like it's it's a it's something that gets stronger when you when you when you, exercise it, correct? Yeah.

Try this, Paul. Maybe your listeners can do this when they're listening. Sit up nice and tall and take a big breath in through your nose and then out.

And now go ahead and kinda slouch down.

Now try to take a big breath in. Yes. Yeah. You can't do it. Yeah. So your rib cage mechanically locks down when you're just slightly slouched forward.

And so we can't get that expansion of our rib cage. Our diaphragm can't engage, and we breathe twenty thousand times every day. So if you think about most of the activities that we do every day, we're sitting behind a steering wheel, we're sitting behind a computer, we're texting, we're working out in front of us. Everything in our day pulls us into that rounded forward position.

Our rib cage gets locked down. So for most of us, we're just, you know, repetition after repetition, we're not engaging our diaphragm, and then we go to do a physical task and neurologically, our body is just not synced up. And so, it's one of those things that you have to, like, be intentional about preparing your body for that, that type of activity because I tell you what, I look at injury data, like, every single day for companies and, like, I cannot tell you how many of the injuries it's like, technician bent down to pick a wrench up off the ground, herniated disc in their lower back.

You know, technician stepped off a curb towards MCL. It's like those type of things should not happen. It's it's because of the capacity of that individual.

Their their body is not prepared to perform that task. And a lot of times these are very strong people, but neurologically things aren't firing in the the right way so that they can engage the muscles at the right time and the right muscles at the right time to have the strength and durability to perform those tasks. I mean, the big thing that I focused on with with athletes is creating, basically, durability or creating resilience in in the athlete, which means their body can take on more with less impact on them. But if we aren't working on creating a more durable body, then, you know, simple tasks will will be things that can create big injuries.

So you would say it's not even, completing those complex tasks. You're just talking about bending over, stepping up, grade change. Like, these are, tasks that are done routinely within the job, but the lack of resiliency in that body, performing the task just kind of fall falls to the wayside. Right?

Yeah. And so I'll get deep with you on one more concept here.

Mom, I bring it.

We we we call it the above and below principle. Okay? So put your ankle out in front of you and kinda twirl your ankle around. Right?

Oh, that feels good.

That's a mobile joint. Okay? Bend your knee back and forth. Okay? That's a hinge joint.

Yep. It's a stable joint. If we go up to our hip, our hip is a ball and socket, moves through a full range of motion.

Then we get up to our lumbar spine, and it's a stable joint. And then up above, we have our thoracic spine. That's actually a mobile area of the body. Again, twenty thousand times a day, we should be, like, getting that movement and that contraction and expansion of our rib cage.

And so there's this concept called the above and below principle. So if I have two areas that are supposed to be mobile they're not moving well, I'm gonna compensate in between. So if my upper back is tight and my hips are tight, those are both supposed to move really, really well. So if they're restricted, then I'm gonna start to overbend in my lumbar spine to try to compensate for the lack of mobility down below.

So I start to chip away at my stability.

Think about a paper clip. You can only bend it so many times back and forth before it breaks.

Absolutely.

And so if I have poor mobility and you probably have done a hip hinge before, you know what a deadlift motion is. Like, if if I can't move in my hips that way and so I'm bending with my lower back, I can only do that so many times before bending down to pick a wrench up off the ground is that straw that breaks the camel's back and then my back goes out. So it has little to do with that activity and just more chronically moving, you know, not the way that our body was designed to move. And so the way to break that cycle is to focus on getting the joints that are supposed to move well, actually moving well, so your hip and your upper back, working on your core stability through, diaphragmatic breathing and then loosening up the muscles above and below that area so that it allows those joints to move freer.

And again, that's that's the real cause of why those type of injuries happen. It's not just, you know, the task itself because, you know, oftentimes you you read a a report and it's like, oh, technician again picked up a wrench and back went out. And so then they, you know, the response is, okay. We should have everyone take a course on, you know, how to how to bend properly to lift wrenches off the ground, which is like, that wasn't it.

Like, we gotta teach people, like, how to get their bodies, more durable and actually moving in the right way. And then those type of tasks should not lead to those type of injuries.

Because that's a everyday task that you should you you should have built that that resilience should be should be there to perform that task.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's such a critical part of the work requirement. It's having that durability. Yeah.

Absolutely.

Let's go let's go into that then. What can you tell us about body positioning, those kind of ergonomics? And line work is probably the worst example ever because it's the most uncomfortable. You're putting a heavy belt on.

Yeah.

You're climbing. You're reaching out. You're you're you're, making terminations on, a arm, you know, house services. You're out there. The the kind of joke is if it hurts, you're doing it right. Meaning, you're in the you're in the right position and your your abdomen's tight or your obliques, cramping up. Then you go in a bucket and you're kinda, you're you're trying to put yourself in a position that best serves you, but it's not always the right position.

You're working in around big heavy trucks that you gotta lean into, pull some stuff out of. Tell me about all all that kind of stuff.

Yeah. Well, first of all, like, switch, I actually had power. Like, this has been one of the the most educational experiences in my life, and I have, like, absolute respect for for the linemen and the electricians out there who do this type work. Like, it's unbelievable.

And, like, when the power goes out, it's never favorable conditions outside. It's it's miserable. And so, yeah, I just wanna lead in by saying that this has been incredible to actually see what what is actually required of that. I think what, what I've observed as I've been out with crews and I've watched the the work that they do is that it is really tough to get into a good body positioning a lot of the time.

I mean, just the positions that you're required to because of the limitations of, you know, space being up in a bucket or, you know, having to reach out and you're on a pole. Like, it's really, really tough. But what I always tell people is there are three things to keep in mind. So talk talking about a checklist.

Think about the position of your base.

So that's like, you know, in some cases, it's it's your feet. Some other cases, it's your knees if you're kneeling. But it's the position of your base because that's you being rooted into the ground so that you have that stable base. I mean, think about a tree with like a deep root system versus a tree with a really shallow root system.

The wind comes like that shallow root system, the tree's gonna topple over. And so you wanna think about yourself being rooted into the ground with a really strong base. And there, you know, sometimes where you want have one foot in front of the other, we call that a staggered stance versus your feet are symmetrical. So it it it's dependent on the type of work that you're doing and the position of the work that you're doing.

Number two, is it the position of your trunk? So again, thinking, am I twisted? Am I, you know, keeping a flat spine? Am I hinging through the hips?

Am I in that strong position? And so, we we call it the prime position, but if you think of the position of a short stop, somebody who's playing defense on a basketball team, a linebacker position, a safety position, like, all of them get into the exact same starting position when they're getting ready to, for a play. We call that the prime position or the ready position.

So thinking about, again, that position of the base, the trunk, and then the position of the shoulders is critical. That's your, yeah, that's your checklist. Because if if you can be strong and rooted in those three positions, you can, you know, even in those awkward moments, you can, you know, position your body at least in the strongest position possible so that you can reduce the stress that's being placed on your body. But then it also goes back to, you know, as much as as feasibly possible, trying to take breaks every once in a while.

I mean, a sustained muscle contraction, like being in a awkward position for a long time, puts a lot of strain on the muscles. That's one of the the more taxing tasks. And so, again, just thinking about if this is gonna be a job that I'm gonna be doing for four hours, you you gotta give yourself you gotta pace it, to reduce that stress on your body. But, yeah, base trunk and shoulders.

That's that's what I always tell people.

Yeah. That was always fun seeing how many services you could connect, leaning out in the arm and then coming back in, regathering, taking those deep breaths, and get back out there to to finish the job. So that's always kinda cool. Yeah. And it's always kind of like with your poll partners of the poll, so you can kinda go the longest without having to adjust your feet or leaning out. So it's kinda fun. Yeah.

You call you call prime position. What do you call it?

I call it the prime position.

Is that the same as the power zone?

Yeah. Well, power zone is more like where you're working.

So There you go.

Talk about that, please.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the other thing too. I mean, I mean, think about holding, you know, a twenty pound weight.

If I hold it close to my body, I mean, pretty simple. Like, everything is close to my center of gravity, but every inch that I get away from my body, it puts exponential amount of focused, focused, like, on my lower back. So, Paul, you and I at the start were talking about, like, putting an extension, like, on a a wrench. If you increase that lever arm, it takes less force for you to, you know, exert or less, yeah, forced to exert more tension on that nut or whatever you're trying to crack.

Yeah.

Exert more tension on that nut or whatever you're trying to crack. Yeah. But the further we get away from our bodies, it's just gonna exponentially increase the amount of strain on our our back. So again, keeping things in the power zone is is critical.

What's your advice for anyone who can actually think think less of of kind of like these these functions and the implementation. They don't they don't necessarily believe in working out or they don't they don't think they have that kind of, discipline to prioritize movement health. What's kind of your advice for that?

Yeah. I mean, I think the the thing is at the end of the day, if if you don't wanna focus on a movement health, I mean, at the very minimum, like, you can also focus on the recovery aspect. I mean, like, hydration, nutrition, you know, sleep recovery, all those things, again, don't require a ton of effort. A lot of it is just decision making. You know what I mean? But we know that muscles that are even two percent dehydrated, they're gonna be at a higher risk for an injury. You're gonna be more stiff and sore.

You can't flush out all of the toxins in your body that are formed through, like, exertion, lactic acid, things like that. We know that, you know, being even slightly dehydrated changes the way that your brain functions, so you're not gonna think as clearly.

And so yeah. So if if you don't wanna focus on these physical aspects of movement health, I mean, there are ways even the food that we can either increase inflammation, put us at higher risk for an injury and pain, or, you know, we can make choices that are gonna give the body the nutrients it needs to actually heal and recover better.

So I don't know if I'm answering your question there, Paul, but is that kind of along the lines of what you're No, it's a loaded question.

There's no right answer. I'm just just just trying to challenge you and see see what we can kind of, pull from you. But, yeah, that that totally fits fits the the answer for absolutely.

You and I kinda talked about implementing, a movement health or just kinda taking care of yourself with these with some of these protocols you've talked about, how it sets a standard or expectation for yourself. And, one of my favorite things when working as a lineman is to to have the apprentice go up in the air, and work, do what's in their in their capacity of their job, the scope of their job. And and they do a great job, clean quality work, but then you go to their trailer and it's a complete mess. It's disorganized.

And the conversation was always like, how can you do the you see the importance of doing your your work at a quality standard that's high there, but then you you disregard your standard, when you get to the trailer inside your truck. So it's kinda like that that that saying that says, how you do anything is how you do everything. So I think there's a there's a intimacy or or like a connection between taking care of your body at a certain standard and performing some of the movements set that standard for the what else with everything else you do. Yeah.

Makes sense kind of?

Totally.

Yeah. And yeah. There's a little bit of a loaded question, but, you know, I think that some of this goes back to even just how people value themselves. Like, one of the things that I say in almost the end of every video that we produce is you're worth investing in.

Sure.

And, I mean, here here's the reality is, like, when we are in pain, we can't be the best versions of ourselves. I mean, pain impacts, you know, everything about us. Like, we get for tempered and, like, we we just can't think clearly. We're more irritated.

It's kinda like being hangry. You know what I mean? It's like you can't be the best version of yourself. And I mean, I just I I try to reiterate to every person, like, you're a gift to this world. Like, bring your best self to it, and, you know, you can optimize who you are. And so I think that the way that, you know, even people take care of their bodies, like, oftentimes, people will take better care of their vehicles and their tools than their own body. And so, I mean, our hope is that, you know, as we walk with people through their journey of learning more about this and and thinking about, you know, setting up a plan for themselves that they see themselves as being worth investing in because they're they're a gift to this world and they have things to give and they'll be the best version of themselves, when they're taking care of themselves, their bodies.

Absolutely. And and, I hope the goal I I didn't come off as the goal being Mr.

Olympia or Yeah.

You know, what that looks like. But it it's just implementing a procedure or some type of protocols to get you on a path that you're feeling better and and and things are feeling good.

So Yeah.

Alright.

Performance coach, Jason you have to help me with the last Galupo.

There we go.

Yeah.

I had a conversation with him on LinkedIn, and he wanted me to talk about the importance of not only a pre shift warm up, but also the end of the day muscle care. Yeah. What's kind of your speech on that?

Yeah. Again, I Did you say his last name too?

Batchagalupo. Oh, man. That's Yeah. He's he's fantastic. He's one of our performance coaches. Love the guy.

But, yeah. So, again, recovery at the end of the day, I I I mentioned that, you know, the recovery is just as important as anything that you do during the day. So, I mean, recovery looks different for for some people. It's, you know, sitting around while they're watching TV with their family and, you know, you're rolling your your legs out, you're rolling your muscles out and you're stimulating, you know, blood flow, oxygen to the tissues that, you know, you can wake up the next morning feeling better.

But I think it also goes back to, you know, what are the other things that you're doing. So making sure you're fueling your body with the right the right nutrition so that it actually can recover. I mean, it's amazing when you give your body the stuff that it needs, it does amazing things with it, and it can heal and recover a lot of that stuff. But I mean, unfortunately, a lot of the food that we have in our society, it's not nutritious.

Like, it it creates inflammation, which then prevents recovery from happening.

So I often times say that, you know, fueling your recovery and hydrating your recovery are two of the most important things that you can do. And then, obviously, you know, the sleep aspect. I mean, that's when our body is going through, you know, it's a whole recovery phase. I I know, like, with my root band, it's one of those things, like, I've completely changed so many of my habits. Like, I know that if I have any sugar past about six PM, the quality of my sleep and my recovery goes way down.

You know, I don't drink a lot, but if I even have one beer, like, my recovery will be at, like, in the red. I'll be, like, thirty percent. And so I'm, like, it's just not worth it.

Like, I've got too much other stuff that I wanna do to Fifty k.

Yeah. Yeah. To to, like, have a thirty percent recovery. That's not worth it. And so, I think that sometimes data helps you make better decisions that help, you know, cause you to to be in a better spot. So it it does take intention. I mean, you have to be thoughtful about those things, but I think that the, the information in the data, you know, can help support those those, decisions for sure.

Absolutely.

I I kinda wanna talk about something, something that we can utilize at Sturgill California, and I wanna get your take on it is the relationship between the energy will and movement health. What do you got on that?

Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm super grateful for, there are several people in the industry.

Matt Hallowell. I don't know if you know doctor Matt Hallowell. He's, the CRSA, so construction research safety alliance, out in Colorado. They've done some amazing things at really bringing these concepts to the table, along with EEI.

So I wanna give credit where credit's due, but the whole concept is that, serious injuries and fatalities, have not really changed. Like, we haven't been shifting the needle. Those continue to be, things that impact, you know, companies and obviously lives. And so the whole goal is getting people home safely.

The energy wheel is a framework that gives people, the ability to evaluate a job site and say, okay. Here are all the high energy, hazards that are present.

And so here's how we're gonna go about our work today so that we don't put ourselves essentially in line with fire of high energy situations. And so, there are a bunch of different things like electricity, gravity, mechanical forces.

And so when we're thinking about the energy wheel in the human body, you know, there's not currently in the the model, there's not a strong connection between musculoskeletal injuries and, serious injuries and fatalities. But where where I see there being a connection is that, again, it goes back to this this fact that really the human is at the center of the energy wheel. I mean, they're the one who is performing the pre job evaluation. They're looking for the hazards.

They're identifying the risks that are present. And so if if I go to a job, I'm in pain, like, I have tunnel vision. It's harder for me to identify our tasks or to or hazards and, those different situations. And so I'm not gonna perform that task at the highest level.

I also know that, you know, gravitational forces, mechanical forces, motion, those are all things that also put me at risk for developing, you know, a sprain strain injury. So being aware of how those type of, energy hazards also relate to me is is something that's important.

And then I have to make sure that my body is actually prepared to go and actually perform that task. Because if I'm not ready, I'm gonna put myself and the rest of the team at risk, for something actually failing.

Great little tool. We utilize it on our tail boards. It's any type of hazard can be identified with one of these, energy wheel parameters, and it's it's a good tool. And I'm glad you guys are implementing and kind of making that comparison too. So it fits right right into to pocket.

Yeah. And, again, that whole framework goes back to, it's also called the capacity models, thinking about creating capacity in a situation so that, you know, one of the principles is that we're all fallible, that we all can make mistakes. And so if we do make mistakes, we put the safeguards in place so that failure can happen safely and that, we don't injure people or or people don't get killed. But going back to us, our earlier conversation about building capacity in the individual, an injury happens when the energy force is greater than the person's capacity.

So the load is greater than the capacity. That's when failure happens to the, to the human. And so by increasing people's capacity, and durability, they can handle more stress load energy, from a physical perspective with less impact on their body. So that's that's the other connection there is where I think we can really help people become more durable for those type of work situations.

Absolutely.

Kinda wanna talk about something we we you touched on a little bit we touched on a little bit, but emotional wellness directly tied to physical health. I think we look at the construction industry and the utility industry, you see a high industry that's kind of filled with prescription, prescripted opioids, maybe a coping, coping skills of of abusing alcohol or just different habits that could lead towards other problems.

Once again, can you kinda reiterate that that that how that physical health plays into that mental health?

Yeah. And again, I think we we've done surveys of like over a thousand linemen and what we find is when we ask them, like, do you experience pain on a regular basis?

Like, anywhere between forty five and eighty percent of the time we ask that question, people are like, Yeah, I experienced pain four out of ten, at least three times a week. Like, it's extremely common. And so, I think it's just acknowledging that, you know, a big chunk of the population is in pain, but we're not necessarily giving people the tools on how they can deal with that. And, that fire alarm analogy.

I mean, we just try to deaden the signal. So we'll do ibuprofen and that's like the starting point and then it turns into, you know, six pack of beer and then it turns to opioids. I mean, unfortunately, that's what we're seeing a lot in the industry right now. And it's, I mean, from my perspective, it's just absolutely tragic that, you know, someone should, you know, work hard every day, put their body on the line, but then not be able to, you know, deal with that.

And, again, there's so many different components, but I do think that pain pain does play a role in in this whole thing. So, it may not be a situation that's gonna fix everything, but if we can help support people from a pain perspective, from a movement health perspective, I think it really can have a profound impact in terms of, you know, people's overall well-being for sure.

Absolutely. Well said.

I wanna pull a reading from, Your Brain Weighs five hundred Pounds by Derek Pledger.

It's it's not a it's not a cover to cover read. It's a book you kinda just pull through and and, like daily devotional kind of reading but pretty good pretty good.

Pedro here I wanted to read it says. Recipe sixty five Being interested is not being committed.

The nineteen seventy two Miami Dolphins are the only NFL team to go undefeated over an entire season.

That team's commitment to winning the Super Bowl and commitment to each other is legendary.

Skipping down a little bit.

Says, the lesson here is simple. You are kidding yourself and your desired outcomes excuse me. You are kidding yourself if your desired outcomes are just thoughts or words on paper.

Thoughts or words on paper show you that you are more interested than you are committed.

Commitment means taking deliberate action to move towards your goals.

Without without full commitment, your your life goals will remain elusive. Kevin, how committed do you have to be to yourself just to kind of implement these these some of these habits, some of these protocols, some of these procedures?

Yeah. I mean, that that's the thing. It's like a huge continuum. And I think oftentimes in society, we we put so much pressure on people to be these, like, ultra high achievers, then you set goals that are so high that then you're like, I'm I'm failed again.

Like, I'm off the wagon. Why even do this? But, like, that's where I'm like, man, if people just did, like, a great starting point. We we talked about this earlier.

Three days a week for five minutes, you invest in your movement health just by doing simple stuff like rolling, breathing, and moving, you can have a a pretty profound impact in terms of just the way that you move and feel. Hey. That's check the box. That's a great starting point.

Then it gives you that fuel to say, okay. I'm gonna move up to five days per week, and you just start to make it part of your routine. I mean, Paul, how how often do you brush your teeth?

Twice a day.

Twice a day. Yeah. Everyday. Right?

Sorry. Yeah.

Yeah. And so it's like one of those things, like, we just don't think about our movement health the same as we do our oral health. So it's like if we could give ourselves just a couple minutes and we're just we start to make it part of the habit, I mean, that's a great starting point. And then you might say, you know what?

I'm gonna bump it up a notch. I'm gonna, you know, just focus on drinking an extra thirty two ounces of water per day. And all of a sudden, it's like, okay. We know statistically, you're actually improving so many areas of how your body functions physiologically.

Awesome. Next step. And then two weeks later, it's like, okay. I'm gonna try to reduce one, you know, Monster Energy drink and cut down all my sugar, and I'm gonna, you know, eat two more vegetables.

It's just like, it doesn't have to be these major things, and I'm not dogging on Monster Energy drinks. I'm just saying that it's like, you know, if sugar is what you're putting in your body, I mean, that's calories that are replacing maybe better foods that are gonna be anti inflammatory to your body. So it's just stuff that we have to have to be thinking about. And again, if we can just help people nudge them in the right direction, it feels way less of this.

Like, either I'm all in or all out and, you know, I'm either successful or a failure. So I think it's the the small changes over time that really have the biggest impact.

Absolutely. Very cool.

I wanna challenge you again here. I was reading a book by doctor Peter Peter Attia. It's called Outlive. Mhmm. He talks about, medicine one point o being, penicillin, antibiotics, medicine two point o being, quality of life and life extension with, prescription drugs for cancer, for heart disease.

And then he talks about medicine three point o being disease free.

Mhmm.

So if we were to say movement health one point o is living a life of pain.

Medicine two point o is implementing a move, excuse me, roll, breathe, movement techniques, and and protocols into into your life. What is Movement Health three point o look like?

Yeah. By the way, that's a great book. Like, one of my favorite books. I think he's just spot on with that. And so I think Movement Health three point o, that really gets into those lifestyle factors where you're really being intentional about, like, you know, the things that you're eating, things that you're drinking, the recovery aspects. I mean, it's probably doing cold plunges and saunas. It's, you know, getting prescreened for different, you know, health conditions that you can maybe, you know, fine tune through different aspects of healthy behavior.

You know, it could be supplements that are gonna, you know, give your body the right collagen it needs to to heal. So I think it's it's taking that next step of saying, okay. Now I'm gonna get way more preventative, way more in front of it. I'm gonna start, doing things that, you know, are less reactive, to, like, pain or symptoms and more I know that these are healthy behaviors that are gonna set me up for success long term.

Absolutely. Yeah. Cool.

We're we're gonna shift right now, but I wanted to cover, three takeaways. I know, to the audience, this is a pretty information heavy podcast, and I know we wanna break it down. So if you can give the listeners three takeaways from that conversation we just had, what what would they be?

Yeah. I think it goes back to, a couple different things. So, like, number one, like, the bar is pretty low in terms of things that we can do to take care of our muscle health. And, you know, we talked about rolling, breathing, moving is a great starting point.

That's, like, step one. Number two is, again, thinking about the way that we perform our daily tasks so that we're reducing unneeded stress on our body. So we talked about, like, prime position. We talked about, you know, power zone.

And and so, like, for people who are, you know, on the job thinking about, like, how they're performing those job tasks, I think is is number, two. Number three is, you know, this recovery aspect. Like, what are what are simple things that you can do that would just be, like, a first step in the right direction to optimize your recovery? Because at the end of the day, that's how we start to break the cycle of breakdown, and, and we can actually encourage building up rather than just avoiding breakdown.

Cool.

Well said. Good stuff. You might have to go back, listen to a little bit more again, and just kinda, refresh that. That was all good stuff.

I'm passionate about it. I know a lot of people in the industry are too. So, good stuff, Kevin. Alright.

Let let's shift. Not only are you, passionate about, providing some of this information to the to the, the power utility industry, to other industries, but you, you're co founder of a company. If you can, can you talk about Vamosity?

Yes. So Vamosity, my wife and I actually started the company. Again, this goes back to twenty sixteen when, that utility reached out to us. And, it was one of those things where it was like, okay, this feels like a side project, and I was still seeing patients full time. I was still traveling around the world with the sports teams.

But then by the time we got into, like, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, I was like, man, I'm really passionate. Again, this goes back to, like, everyone in my family. Like, they're hardworking people, and I was just like, this this is where I wanna be spending my life. So, yeah, Vamosity is really focused on, partnering primarily with utility and construction companies on, giving their safety teams a platform and the tools to be able to implement a movement health program across the workforce.

So there's that piece, but then we also engage, directly with the workers and give them that framework, give them the digital tools, education, to be able to, you know, continue to, you know, enhance her the way that they're moving, feel on and off the job. And I think that that's a big part. In fact, we even, like, provide access to family members because we just realized that, man, when people go home, that's a great opportunity for us to continue to help people, you know, take care of their bodies. And that's, I think, different. We're we don't necessarily see ourselves just as a safety program because, you know, oftentimes people put their hat on and and then take it off, you know, in different context, but we really wanna see this more holistically.

And so yeah. So Vamosity, we now work with, companies all across the United States. We actually are just launching in Europe this week with, a wind company.

Woah.

So it's it's been pretty cool. I feel so fortunate that we're able to do this.

And all since two twenty sixteen.

Yeah. Yeah. And really, basically, twenty twenty is really when we started it full the full time. So Yeah.

That's cool.

Yeah. And you mentioned right now a little bit, but what's a what's a big difference between, your company, Venosity versus another, company who who offers something parallel to to what you guys do.

Yeah. No. And I appreciate you asking that. And, again, we we see ourselves as there's so many different options out there.

We're just, you know, trying to to make a difference in in people's lives. I I think the the thing maybe that sets us apart is that, you know, when we first started this company in twenty twenty sixteen, we were super hands on, and it was awesome. People loved it, but, then the pandemic hit and we realized I mean, we couldn't we had to completely change our model. And so that's where that's where we really decided to to have, like, the digital component be a big part of how we engage with people and how we continued to to educate people and, so that integration to the infrastructure.

So, like, you know, a lot of the companies that we work with every safety meeting, they're showing, like, a two minute video on different concepts so that we can reinforce the education. So it's not just like a one and done, like people get excited and then they forget about it. It's like, how do we help nudge people in the right direction on a continual basis so that they can change those those habits? And so, our sweet spot is working with companies that have a geographically spread out population where it's really difficult to, you know, actually engage people.

You know, there are a lot of solutions where an athletic trainer or physical therapist goes on-site and they provide care, and that's awesome, like, incredible. But what we realize is that, you know, there are a lot of people who are remote that maybe never show up to the office. So how do we capture those people? And so our sweet spot is really being able to to support really large organizations that, you know, have a large footprint so that we can ensure that we're capturing each person.

And we're focused very much on the prevention rather than just the reaction, reactionary care.

Cool. Yeah.

What's that process look like if someone wants to get started? What's what's, take take walks through that a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I mean, always the first step is just us doing discovery and being able to talk to to companies and say, you know, what what are we really trying to solve here? Like, is this to check the box or is it, like, no.

We we really wanted to dive in deep. So oftentimes, we have some, you know, pretty in-depth conversations about, what the company is trying to accomplish, and, then we start to do some discovery in terms of, like, what is the extent of the the the issue that we're trying to solve? So we'll look at, like, three to five years of injury data. We'll start to kind of piece together how so so we call musculoskeletal disorders to MSDs, how those actually are impacting the organization.

We try to understand the culture and the footprint of the company so that we can develop a plan that's gonna really be sustainable, and then how do we integrate into the daily infrastructure. So there's ton of discovery to lead up just to make sure that we're gonna be a right fit. Because, again, if if those three, leading indicators that I talked about, like, if there's not, like, buying from the top level, if we, you know, have trouble getting managers to support something like that, or if it's not able to be integrated into the infrastructure, or if, new employees can't be integrated, it's just not gonna be a good fit.

Like but if we do those things, it's it's amazing the results that we see. So, so we just we do a lot of diligence to make sure that there's a good partnership there and that we can really accomplish what what we set out to achieve.

That's cool. Yeah. What's some of that feedback you get from, the clients and then more importantly maybe the workforce?

Yeah. So some some feedback that, we'll get is, like, from the safety and the executive team. They'll say, you know, this is one of those programs that shifts the needle. I mean, we have the data be to be able to show that, companies that participate in this program and, you know, engage in this partnership.

They reduce not only the number of injuries, but they also, see a decrease in the the severity of the injuries. Again, going back to we're really helping them build durability in the workforce. So we'll see a reduction in days away and restricted time. And so to me, that's like a measure of, like, are we creating a more durable workforce?

Like, you know, number one, they're getting injured less, but there are less severe injuries.

So the effectiveness is is definitely one of the things that we hear, but we also hear that it's one of the first employee embrace programs, that they've implemented because people would truly love it because we really try to focus on this is for the employees. It's not just, like, to check the boxes to give them a better life so that they can do the things that they care about both on and off the job, and they can live their best life. And so we really try to position it as it's a benefit. It's a chance for you to, you know, take care of your body and to learn how to do that and to have fun in the process.

And so that's one of the things. And then we do produce a lot of content, that is really targeted towards continuing the education. We we put a lot of time, and resources into making sure that's really high quality, and that it's applicable to the workforce and that it's short. We live in a YouTube culture where, you know, people want two minutes or less, but they want it to also be engaging.

And so oftentimes, we'll hear people say, like, I used to hate the the safety training videos that came out, and this is stuff that I actually like, I can relate to and then, you know, I can put it into practice right away.

Absolutely. I'm a I'm a go ahead and take give give my opinion on that. Not that it matters, but, like, I was given some of the videos, from from your team, and they're super cool. They're they're they're done neatly.

They look they look they're extremely relevant to what we do. The actors are good. You're in a lot of them. I know some of your performance coaches are a lot of them, but just even the examples showing the the worker climbing, it's it's not cheesy.

It it looks real. It it brings a lot of light to some of the issues. So it's really cool. Yeah.

Yeah. One of the coolest things that's happened is we, we realized that, like, I would go on-site with a company. They pay me a lot of money to do an ergonomic observation.

And the only people that would benefit from it was the technician or the lineman that I was working with and then maybe a safety person who read the report. And I'm like, this is ridiculous. And then I do the exact same thing at another utility. I'm like, everybody is doing the exact same job tasks.

Like, we just need to create a video library that shows not how to do the job task, but how to best position your body when you perform the job task. And so one of the cool things is that we started to partner with our utility companies and say, hey. Can we work with you to produce four job tasks and videos on how to do, like, climbing a pole or, you know, working on a meter set, things like that. And if you're okay with it, can will you share your videos with the rest of the utilities if they share their videos with, with you?

And so what it's done is it's given us access. Now we will go to training facilities. We'll actually work with Lyman, with gas techs, with generation employees, you know, at their training facilities. We create these really high production videos, And then everybody that we work with gets access to those.

We have, like, sixty, library videos in our library that are all highly, produced. And I think the the workers appreciate because they're like, oh, I can see myself doing it. Like, that's someone who does this day in and day out. It's not just an actor who's, you know, in that video.

And so it's been a really cool collaborative process, and it just comes from this this perspective that, you know, safety is not proprietary. And so we all get better, like, all ships rise when, when the tide goes up before all working together. And so that's been a a pretty cool partnership, and we work with over twenty utilities, in the US. And so that's been pretty neat thing.

Absolutely. That's cool. Yeah.

Kevin, we're gonna shift or start wrapping this thing up, but I I wanna get opportunity to talk about anything, with the modesty that I I didn't I didn't cover.

Yeah. No. I I think that, you know, one of the big conversations right now in safety does relate to serious injuries and fatalities. And so, that's topic number one.

Topic number two relates to mental health and well-being, in the workplace. And so those are two areas that, you know, we're really starting to to move into just because we know it's really relevant. And so, like, last week, we did a great webinar with, doctor Katie welfare who was one of the original people, that helps, put together a lot of the components of the energy wheel. And so we're really gonna start to, have a lot of free opportunities, like, through our LinkedIn site, webinars that that focus on those act, type of topics.

In about a month and a half, we're gonna do one on mental health and movement health and and try to bring some of those concepts together. So, yeah, if, if people wanna follow me on LinkedIn or follow Masia on LinkedIn, we'll definitely have a lot of free opportunities for people to continue to learn, about some of these topics.

Cool. Thank you. And I'll link all those in the, podcast description.

Alright. Let's, roll into, and we'll have a little fun. We got some time for a little bit of fun. You good on time?

Yeah. K. Cool. Alright. Let's take a pause with the producer, Paul. Obviously, I'm filling in as a host, but, this segment is powered by DragonWare FRR.

Go visit our friends at dragonwear frr dot com.

Alright. Kevin, July twentieth on Netflix at AT and T Stadium. Jake Paul and, Mike Tyson will be fighting. Jake Paul is twenty seven years old, and Mike Tyson will be fifty eight years old. Impressed with this.

I I I'm impressed with this.

I actually didn't know that this is happening, so I'm not very well prepared for that. But what I would say is that Mike Tyson is, he's gotta focus on the fundamentals. Right? He if he if he performs at his high highest level, he'll do well, but, yeah, he's he's probably gotta focus on his recovery, recovery and technique. That's gonna be an interesting match to watch for sure.

Can you believe this is the world we live in?

Like Yeah.

It it's like I I usually don't I usually don't watch these, these exhibition bouts. I did watch the one with Mike Tyson, obviously. I'm just a Mike Tyson fanatic at Yeah. Eighteen years old becoming a headweight champion.

Like, the guy was one of Oh, yeah.

One of one. But I I think, and I'll watch this one, but, I think it's just it's just weird that this is what we're gonna pay to watch. And I say pay, but it's on Netflix.

So Yeah. Yeah.

It's kinda unique.

It's gonna be fascinating. Right? Yeah. I can't wait to watch it.

Dude, it's still scary at fifth like, you're gonna be six years old.

He's fit. Yes. Like, I'm impressed by him.

Yeah. Yeah.

And he just, he's just continuing like you thought once we saw him leave, and I think even you're not a fan of the sport, just that attitude and just that Yeah.

He he was a world phenomenon. Like, it was Yeah. It was a culture shift of of who he was. It's it changed my childhood watching him fight. Like, that's how you wanted to attack attack and approach everything. Like you just want everything was a you were the hammer and everything was the nail.

Yep. Yeah.

And he just showed that it was just it was get out of my way. Just knocking grown men out. It was crazy.

Yeah. What a fascinating individual.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Cool. So you're gonna watch, baby?

I, man, I'll put it on my calendar. This is, like I said, this is news to me. I I didn't, hear that was happening.

Yeah. Obviously, it's probably a nice little cash grab, and, they're gonna cash in on that. But I think anyways, it's gonna be it's pretty unique to see. So For sure. Cool, man. That's all I got.

Kevin, man, appreciate your time.

Paul, man, I so appreciate all that you do. I think that this is so unique, especially for this industry. And I mean, you're serving so many people and I've really enjoyed listening to your other conversations and incredibly grateful for this opportunity. So thank you. Cool. I appreciate it. What do you think about the podcast platform?

You into it? It's it's long form conversations, a little different. I I am a podcast junkie.

I mean, I literally probably listen to ten hours of podcast a week.

I mean, when when you run a lot and, I mean, I run and drive and that's what I do. So, yeah, I love it. So really enjoyed getting to be familiar with your audience. It's been great.

Cool. I appreciate you. And you run with podcasts? You don't do music?

Or No.

I like to listen to podcasts.

That's cool, man. Yeah.

Just kinda get in your zone and just roll.

Totally.

Yep. Well, good luck on your, your fifty ks, man. That's that's that's pretty cool.

Yeah. I'm excited. Grateful for the opportunity.

Cool. Kevin, I appreciate you. I appreciate your team. It was a pleasure working with you guys. Hope to have you on again in the near future, man.

Yeah. Thanks a lot. Keep up the good work.

Appreciate it, sir. Thanks.

Yep. Bye.

Alright, guys. That's gonna do it. Appreciate you. Wanna thank the entire Sturgillish kind of workforce.

Without you, this podcast would be impossible.

Once again, thanks to team Vimocity and Kevin.

Alright, guys. Let's go and do it. Catch you in the next one.

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